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New Spell Vamp Item Proposals.

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Traxicus

Member

12-17-2013

There seems to be a consensus that WotA's changes were a huge nerf and the removal of spell vamp from SotSW isn't helping. Rather than add another thread that whines about this issue, I'd like to try to propose some new items, and invite whoever sees this to critique them and create their own. Here's what I've got:

Draining Voidstone:
Builds from Ruby Crystal (475g), 2x Rejuvenation Beads (360g), Hextech Revolver (1200g), and 715 additional gold, for a total of 2750g.

+300 Health
+12 Health Regen
+60 Ability Power
Unique Passive: +20% Spell Vamp
  • This item is supposed to answer the complaints from non-mana-using mages like Vladimir and Mordekaiser, providing them with tankiness and damage but prioritizing sustain.
  • I'm hesitant to put CDR on it because that would make it very, very strong, but I feel it would make a lot more sense to build it from a Kindlegem.
  • I think it would be really neat to move Grievous Wounds from Morellonomicon to this, thoughts?

Spellseal Scimitar:
Builds from Hextech Revolver (1200g), Sheen (1200g), and 550 additional gold, for a total of 2950g.
+80 Ability power
+350 Mana
Unique Passive: +17% Spell Vamp
Unique Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, your next basic attack deals 60 + 40% of your AP and heals you for 20% of the damage dealt. 2 Second Cooldown.
  • A spell vamp counterpart to Lich Bane/IBG/Trinity Force targeted towards AP marksmen or mages with good AAs like Teemo, Orianna, or Twisted Fate.
  • It's just barely under gold efficient without the spellblade part, like most spellblade items are. I considered giving it attack speed (similar to how lich bane gives movement speed), but I'm not sure if that would throw off the balance.
  • I'm unsure if the % heal on the spellblade is too low or too high, it's hard to get an idea of how much health that would actually be returning alongside the spell vamp from the ability before it. I estimate it'll average around 50hp each proc.

I might come up with a jungler spell vamp item later, for now I'm going to bed. I look forward to seeing opinions from the community!


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The5lacker

Senior Member

12-18-2013

Man, it's almost like the changes to WotA and SotSW might be related somehow...Man...if only I could put my finger on how that change might be related...


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Traxicus

Member

12-18-2013

I'm aware that the SotSW's benefits were condensed into WotA, and I'm sorry I wasn't specific enough with my stance on spell vamp items to deter your sarcastic response. I believe the easiest and most effective fix is to create more items that utilize spell vamp, hence my ideas.


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Elphrihaim

Senior Member

12-19-2013

new WotA is more cost-efficient for manaless champions than old SotSW so I cannot see the issue


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Mage Lord Nelber

Senior Member

12-19-2013

I agree with new Spellvamp item builds to be made hands down. There's way to much AD lifesteal builds atm and they all wreck face. Mages need some room for improvement.


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BaronVonSlicey

Senior Member

12-19-2013

Quote:
Mage Lord Nelber:
I agree with new Spellvamp item builds to be made hands down. There's way to much AD lifesteal builds atm and they all wreck face. Mages need some room for improvement.


AD champions get less lifesteal then mages get health/armour/mr.
The only AD+defense items are:
Trinity Force: +250 health on a 3.7k gold item... yeah, this isn't bought for its high defensive values.
Maw of Malmortius: A good item, but once again, not worth its cost a lot of the time. Grabbing a pure-mr item and a pure AD item is usually better.
Frozen Mallet: A left over from Phage, and isn't seen very often either.
Black Cleaver: Popular, but once again... +250 health. Minuscule at best.
And then... nothing else.

AD champions do not get health, armour or magic resist from AD items. It simply doesn't happen. If they want defense, they have to invest in pure tank items - GA, Banshee's for Marksman, and Sunfire/Randuins/Spirit Visage for bruisers.

Meanwhile, do you want to know how many AP items do NOT have a defensive stat? 5. And 1 of those 5 grants a large shield.
Mages do not need spellvamp to function because they have way, way more options to build health and resistances then AD champions.
The other reason is this:
Lifesteal is actually possible to balance.
Lifesteal is, basically, "you gain X health per second while fighting". The only modifier to it is crit, which can be calculated as a % increase in damage dealt per attack, it can be continuously used with no limitations (such as mana and variable, long cooldowns), and doesn't differ from champion to champion except for range (which has a lot lower range of ranges then spells do).
Meanwhile, spells are the exact opposite. Some champions have global-range AoE nukes that could grant you +500 health, others only have 1 short range spell that actually procs spellvamp. Some champions can 100-0 any target they want, and some champions can have permanent AoEs constantly dealing damage to an entire team.
It is that simple. There is no way to viably balance spellvamp, and as such, Riot will simply keep doing what they have always done - never let spellvamp be a stat people can viably purchase like any other stat.


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Traxicus

Member

12-20-2013

Quote:
BaronVonSlicey:

Mages do not need spellvamp to function because they have way, way more options to build health and resistances then AD champions.


Mages don't NEED spell vamp. The issue is in the utter lack of options should they desire a build oriented around sustain. Continued teamfight presence could be just as valuable as burst potential, and the build paths should be there for both.

Quote:
BaronVonSlicey:

The other reason is this:
Lifesteal is actually possible to balance.
Lifesteal is, basically, "you gain X health per second while fighting". The only modifier to it is crit, which can be calculated as a % increase in damage dealt per attack, it can be continuously used with no limitations (such as mana and variable, long cooldowns), and doesn't differ from champion to champion except for range (which has a lot lower range of ranges then spells do).
Meanwhile, spells are the exact opposite. Some champions have global-range AoE nukes that could grant you +500 health, others only have 1 short range spell that actually procs spellvamp. Some champions can 100-0 any target they want, and some champions can have permanent AoEs constantly dealing damage to an entire team.
It is that simple. There is no way to viably balance spellvamp, and as such, Riot will simply keep doing what they have always done - never let spellvamp be a stat people can viably purchase like any other stat.


So basically you're saying the difference between AoE and Single-Target spells break spell vamp balance compared to life steal. From the wiki: "Area of effect (AoE) spells only apply 33% of the listed spell vamp." Wouldn't it be easy to toy with that value and find a balance? Also, champions with one short range spell would clearly not build spell vamp. It isn't for everyone, but it's a stat that is clearly neglected in the current itemization.


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