@Riot The skill range in Bronze needs to be reconciled.

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KarmicKatri

Senior Member

12-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
(Warning: not my dept, but I have some thoughts to share as a designer)

I tend to agree with the problem "Bronze is too big a bucket." Generally speaking, you want divisions and brackets to capture certain bands of players; when there's too many or they're too small, they become incomprehensible, but when there's too many people in one, it robs the division of meaning.

It's also why Bronze has such a wide discrepancy of skill between players in the division - some are legitimately struggling Ranked players that have a lack of certain core LoL proficiencies (last hitting, map awareness, etc), while others are simply less experienced or consistent players that have at least a general competence in most core skills.

I actually think I miss "Unranked" being a thing you could be, personally. Unranked is the nicest way of saying "yeah, you're not doing very well!" without extending that feeling to a majority of the League playerbase! Whatever the bottom League is feels bad, whether you're in Bronze V or Bronze I.

So, in short, I agree - I'd love to see greater granularity in the bottom of the ladder to give some additional skill division and more chances to achieve a goal for more players. I'll ask the team about this.
You heard it here first, Devs believe in ELO hell!


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AdderTude

Senior Member

12-18-2013

I'm actually not that bad of a player, I just have incredibly bad luck when it comes to teammates. I almost always get teamed up with legitimately bad players. Because of that, I find myself losing more than I actually win, despite my very good K/D ratio.

Also, I'm still fuming a bit over a ranked game I won while I was briefly in B1, but I never got awarded the eight points I was supposed to get.


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System of Sol

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Senior Member

12-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TioMono View Post
And this is also what the original poster is saying. But if your in bronze 1 but your skill level is actually around silver 3. You will not get out of bronze. The range of completely clueless people you can get matched with is insane. It does not matter how good you are personally when you have 1 or 2 team members that just ignore common sense. People like an adc that pushes to 2nd turret with no wards at all in enemy jungle. Or the people that seem to think baron is the win button and do not ward enemy jungle or get any lane pressure anywhere before trying to take it.

I know mechanically I am bad at this game. But I feel as far as map awareness/strategy goes I am slightly above average, not amazing but at least thinking about it which is above average. When you can look at the map and tell someone "hey bein out there is risky without wards" and they just ignore you and get collapsed on by 3 enemies and they do this all game longyou are not going to win that game. I have seen lcs players doing bronze smurfs and "laughing at the baddies" in one game then the next they are frustrated because "OMG team too heavy gg noobs"

The original posters point is that currently in bronze the gap in game knowledge/skill level can make it extremely frustrating to play.

But, if you can win just barely more than half your games at Bronze 1 you will make it out. If you really belong in Silver 3, you might have to play 50 games to do it, but there is no reason you won't get there. Matchmaking will set you up with players that it thinks are the same skill as you and your teammates, ie they will make the same awful decisions.


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Vegas Dad

Senior Member

12-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
(Warning: not my dept, but I have some thoughts to share as a designer)

I tend to agree with the problem "Bronze is too big a bucket." Generally speaking, you want divisions and brackets to capture certain bands of players; when there's too many or they're too small, they become incomprehensible, but when there's too many people in one, it robs the division of meaning.

It's also why Bronze has such a wide discrepancy of skill between players in the division - some are legitimately struggling Ranked players that have a lack of certain core LoL proficiencies (last hitting, map awareness, etc), while others are simply less experienced or consistent players that have at least a general competence in most core skills.

I actually think I miss "Unranked" being a thing you could be, personally. Unranked is the nicest way of saying "yeah, you're not doing very well!" without extending that feeling to a majority of the League playerbase! Whatever the bottom League is feels bad, whether you're in Bronze V or Bronze I.

So, in short, I agree - I'd love to see greater granularity in the bottom of the ladder to give some additional skill division and more chances to achieve a goal for more players. I'll ask the team about this.

There is a problem with your reply, turns out we actually are not grouped by our division, so in the end your title be it bronze 1, bronze 5 or plat 1 means nothing. We get matched to play with people in our same MMR rating and imho there is a huge skill range gap at any given MMR rating for a wide variet of reasons. The system has too much noise in it and it is too easily exploited, via duo q, account sharing just to name a few.

So make a zillion different divisions to make smaller buckets but in the end the experience the OP is complaining about wont change because it is based on players MMR not divsion title.


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ScarPirate

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Senior Member

12-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Dad View Post
There is a problem with your reply, turns out we actually are not grouped by our division, so in the end your title be it bronze 1, bronze 5 or plat 1 means nothing. We get matched to play with people in our same MMR rating and imho there is a huge skill range gap at any given MMR rating for a wide variet of reasons. The system has too much noise in it and it is too easily exploited, via duo q, account sharing just to name a few.

So make a zillion different divisions to make smaller buckets but in the end the experience the OP is complaining about wont change because it is based on players MMR not divsion title.
thus they are two fixes to this problem: either make your division worth something by pairing you with people from your division, or allow players to see there mmr with in turn would allow for gains to be measured outside the borders


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Atzero

Senior Member

12-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarPirate View Post
thus they are two fixes to this problem: either make your division worth something by pairing you with people from your division, or allow players to see there mmr with in turn would allow for gains to be measured outside the borders
Is there anyway to see my MMR?


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Rowban

Junior Member

12-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atzero View Post
Is there anyway to see my MMR?
No, that was removed in Season 3.


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sfxworks

Senior Member

12-18-2013

None of the people I just played with in my game are on my skill level.
Except for the people on the other team.


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sl0tw0n

Senior Member

12-18-2013

You are matched by your MMR, not your league, adding another tier would not change the people you are matched with one bit.


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austin sucks1

Senior Member

12-18-2013

i got "those" teammates in my placement matches, but was lucky enough to carry myself just an inch from falling into bronze. i completely agree, i have a friend who barely made it out of bronze 5 because of this, and he's actually okay at the game. ever since he got out of bronze 5, it's become far easier for him to play, and he's in silver now. they really need to make some kind of mmr threshold where "those" teammates will be separated from slightly unskilled people trying to get better. not a new league, since that'd be pretty depressing getting put into plastic 6