@Riot The skill range in Bronze needs to be reconciled.

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R3volver

Senior Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
(Warning: not my dept, but I have some thoughts to share as a designer)

I tend to agree with the problem "Bronze is too big a bucket." Generally speaking, you want divisions and brackets to capture certain bands of players; when there's too many or they're too small, they become incomprehensible, but when there's too many people in one, it robs the division of meaning.

It's also why Bronze has such a wide discrepancy of skill between players in the division - some are legitimately struggling Ranked players that have a lack of certain core LoL proficiencies (last hitting, map awareness, etc), while others are simply less experienced or consistent players that have at least a general competence in most core skills.

I actually think I miss "Unranked" being a thing you could be, personally. Unranked is the nicest way of saying "yeah, you're not doing very well!" without extending that feeling to a majority of the League playerbase! Whatever the bottom League is feels bad, whether you're in Bronze V or Bronze I.

So, in short, I agree - I'd love to see greater granularity in the bottom of the ladder to give some additional skill division and more chances to achieve a goal for more players. I'll ask the team about this.
please, please do, i thank you kind individual!?! you're doing a Saint's work.


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Reppuken

Senior Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
(Warning: not my dept, but I have some thoughts to share as a designer)

I tend to agree with the problem "Bronze is too big a bucket." Generally speaking, you want divisions and brackets to capture certain bands of players; when there's too many or they're too small, they become incomprehensible, but when there's too many people in one, it robs the division of meaning.

It's also why Bronze has such a wide discrepancy of skill between players in the division - some are legitimately struggling Ranked players that have a lack of certain core LoL proficiencies (last hitting, map awareness, etc), while others are simply less experienced or consistent players that have at least a general competence in most core skills.

I actually think I miss "Unranked" being a thing you could be, personally. Unranked is the nicest way of saying "yeah, you're not doing very well!" without extending that feeling to a majority of the League playerbase! Whatever the bottom League is feels bad, whether you're in Bronze V or Bronze I.

So, in short, I agree - I'd love to see greater granularity in the bottom of the ladder to give some additional skill division and more chances to achieve a goal for more players. I'll ask the team about this.
There could be a league below it, but I don't think we should use the metal system like bronze, silver, gold, etc. Something like a practice league or an entry league, in which you only play against players in that division. To promote to bronze and begin ranking you click a button and enter a best of seven series with/against only bronze level players and entry league promotees. The entry league could feature an expanded battle training, with reminders on objective control (dragon, buffs for a jungler, baron, pushing when the teamfight is won), turret range, and tips for playing the role like noticing when a marksman runs into the middle of the fight and gets blown up.


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KnifeLion

Senior Member

12-16-2013

OP is right. When I was in low Silver I was a lot more pissed off when someone on my team duoed with a bronze 4 or 5 than if I was matched with a Bronze 1 or 2.


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TYRANT HANZO

Senior Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reppuken View Post
There could be a league below it, but I don't think we should use the metal system like bronze, silver, gold, etc. Something like a practice league or an entry league, in which you only play against players in that division. To promote to bronze and begin ranking you click a button and enter a best of seven series with/against only bronze level players and entry league promotees. The entry league could feature an expanded battle training, with reminders on objective control (dragon, buffs for a jungler, baron, pushing when the teamfight is won), turret range, and tips for playing the role like noticing when a marksman runs into the middle of the fight and gets blown up.
Honestly for next season I'd like to see an entire new system with more tier spread, no promo matches anymore and EVERYONE gets their mmr and tier reset to 0 no soft resets a full reset. Let the ones who can climb climb but start everyone off even.


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Tyrant Zell

Senior Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by oOSiNZeNOo View Post
Honestly for next season I'd like to see an entire new system with more tier spread, no promo matches anymore and EVERYONE gets their mmr and tier reset to 0 no soft resets a full reset. Let the ones who can climb climb but start everyone off even.
That would be so chaotic. Matchmaking would be luck based early in the season...


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LtSmashFSP

Senior Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
(Warning: not my dept, but I have some thoughts to share as a designer)

I tend to agree with the problem "Bronze is too big a bucket." Generally speaking, you want divisions and brackets to capture certain bands of players; when there's too many or they're too small, they become incomprehensible, but when there's too many people in one, it robs the division of meaning.

It's also why Bronze has such a wide discrepancy of skill between players in the division - some are legitimately struggling Ranked players that have a lack of certain core LoL proficiencies (last hitting, map awareness, etc), while others are simply less experienced or consistent players that have at least a general competence in most core skills.

I actually think I miss "Unranked" being a thing you could be, personally. Unranked is the nicest way of saying "yeah, you're not doing very well!" without extending that feeling to a majority of the League playerbase! Whatever the bottom League is feels bad, whether you're in Bronze V or Bronze I.

So, in short, I agree - I'd love to see greater granularity in the bottom of the ladder to give some additional skill division and more chances to achieve a goal for more players. I'll ask the team about this.
I feel like individual mechanics need to be taken into account better. That is probably the only way to fix it. I know that would be hard to do but honestly with enough data collected by factoring in summoner's and build paths you could be able to tell what role the person was playing and how well they did in it. KDA would be able to have an effect as well especially if someone is extremly positive on a losing team. It would show that they are proficient but being held back by their teams. That is probably the only way to stop the clumping and just overall negative environment that Bronze seems to be. Especially since B3 is such a bad place due to what seems to be mid division trapping due to getting only carried so far.


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Davidt1234

Senior Member

12-16-2013

agree with OP. There should be a huge skill gap in one league. and i dont think unranked counts as one before bronze, unranked players range from diamond 1 mechanics and decision making etc to bronze 5. you dont really know because they dont show it with their league.


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TYRANT HANZO

Senior Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtSmashFSP View Post
I feel like individual mechanics need to be taken into account better. That is probably the only way to fix it. I know that would be hard to do but honestly with enough data collected by factoring in summoner's and build paths you could be able to tell what role the person was playing and how well they did in it. KDA would be able to have an effect as well especially if someone is extremly positive on a losing team. It would show that they are proficient but being held back by their teams. That is probably the only way to stop the clumping and just overall negative environment that Bronze seems to be. Especially since B3 is such a bad place due to what seems to be mid division trapping due to getting only carried so far.
OMG if this happened I wouldn't mind losing as bad, heck I have games I've gone 2-13 in but that was intentional lol. If I'm actually trying dying more than 3 times in a 40 min game is kind of hard lol.


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IS1938205e2ab4e357e8748

Senior Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I actually think I miss "Unranked" being a thing you could be, personally. Unranked is the nicest way of saying "yeah, you're not doing very well!" without extending that feeling to a majority of the League playerbase! Whatever the bottom League is feels bad, whether you're in Bronze V or Bronze I.
This might not be the best idea, since it could just mean they didn't want to play ranked. Personally I don't want to touch the ranked queues with a barge pole, so LolNexus (or whatever it's called) says I'm unranked, no matter what my actual skill level is.


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Leo the yordle

Senior Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtSmashFSP View Post
I feel like individual mechanics need to be taken into account better. That is probably the only way to fix it. I know that would be hard to do but honestly with enough data collected by factoring in summoner's and build paths you could be able to tell what role the person was playing and how well they did in it. KDA would be able to have an effect as well especially if someone is extremly positive on a losing team. It would show that they are proficient but being held back by their teams. That is probably the only way to stop the clumping and just overall negative environment that Bronze seems to be. Especially since B3 is such a bad place due to what seems to be mid division trapping due to getting only carried so far.
There is so much more to being good at this game than just getting a good KDA. What you're suggesting seems like it would encourage people being too scared to make plays in order to protect their KDA so that they won't lose as much at the end.

Taking a look at your LoLKing, I'd say step 1 to getting out of where you're at is farming better.