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[Petition] Bring back oracles elixer

12
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MadmanWithBox

Senior Member

12-14-2013

Oracles made sense as an item when everyone could ward as much as they wanted. Now people can only carry and place 3 stealth wards at a time. Oracles would be EXTREMELY overpowered as far as vision wars go. One support could clear all of the enemies' wards in a minute, and everyone who doesn't have a Sightstone would have to GO BACK TO BASE just to replace those wards. Now yes, this does make dealing with stealth champions....problematic.

Possible item solution: Re-introduce a new version of Oracles Elixir that can detect stealthed champions but NOT stealth wards. This preserves the integrity of the new vision wars while making stealth champions a little less bothersome.

Or

Counterplay: Carry a Vision Ward and/or upgrade to Greater Vision Totem. I ALWAYS do this against stealth champions like Akali, Rengar, Kha'Zix, Twitch, Shaco, Wukong. When I see them enter stealth I IMMEDIATELY drop a pink.

Granted the immobile ward is a little less effective when the enemy is running away, but I just chalk that up to a global buff to all stealth champions. Rengar's ultimate should not become null and void just because most everyone on the enemy team had an extra 400 gold to spend.

Teemo: Forget everything I just said when Teemo is under discussion; he is an annoying little rat and his ultimate seriously needs some attention. If Teemo has built Liandry's and a hat, 2 or 3 shrooms is PLENTY to take down a squishy ADC, and that's dumb. There is currently NO REASONABLE COUNTERPLAY against his traps except for EVERYONE to stack magic resistance. No other champion gets a CONSTANT global presence like Teemo does.


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Mathbalnase

Senior Member

12-14-2013

You had me up unto 'no reasonable counterplay'.
It's his ult. 2-3 hits from most damaging ults will take down a squishy. Especially if that ult is dodgeable. And damned well certainly if that ult actually pays you for seeing it coming.

You want counterplay?
MR
Tenacity
regular vision to see where Teemo is planting them
True Sight from various sources to see where shrooms are
avoid unnecessary brush trips, and clear necessary brush regularly (use trinket in combination with green wards for safest results)
STOP GIVING IN to Teemo's 'global taunt'; do not go chasing the little rat through jungle that you have not cleared and is probably filled to bursting with his shrooms and his allies
if he shows up in teamfights, treat him like the low-priority squishy that he is: burst him down if you can, but don't get yourself or your allies dead in the process
if he doesn't show up in teamfights, treat him like the low-priority squishy that he is: smack him if he shows his ugly mug, and be grateful for his absence while you push down turrets if he doesn't


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DeliciousVimp

Senior Member

12-14-2013

That's the thing about invisibility...it is invisible.


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PixelDemise

Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
MadmanWithBox:
Oracles made sense as an item when everyone could ward as much as they wanted. Now people can only carry and place 3 stealth wards at a time. Oracles would be EXTREMELY overpowered as far as vision wars go. One support could clear all of the enemies' wards in a minute, and everyone who doesn't have a Sightstone would have to GO BACK TO BASE just to replace those wards. Now yes, this does make dealing with stealth champions....problematic.

Possible item solution: Re-introduce a new version of Oracles Elixir that can detect stealthed champions but NOT stealth wards. This preserves the integrity of the new vision wars while making stealth champions a little less bothersome.

Or

Counterplay: Carry a Vision Ward and/or upgrade to Greater Vision Totem. I ALWAYS do this against stealth champions like Akali, Rengar, Kha'Zix, Twitch, Shaco, Wukong. When I see them enter stealth I IMMEDIATELY drop a pink.

Granted the immobile ward is a little less effective when the enemy is running away, but I just chalk that up to a global buff to all stealth champions. Rengar's ultimate should not become null and void just because most everyone on the enemy team had an extra 400 gold to spend.

Teemo: Forget everything I just said when Teemo is under discussion; he is an annoying little rat and his ultimate seriously needs some attention. If Teemo has built Liandry's and a hat, 2 or 3 shrooms is PLENTY to take down a squishy ADC, and that's dumb. There is currently NO REASONABLE COUNTERPLAY against his traps except for EVERYONE to stack magic resistance. No other champion gets a CONSTANT global presence like Teemo does.



Even F***ing shen doesn't have the global presence teemo has. You are right, those shrooms need to be nerfed, hard


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AWickedGangAreWe

Junior Member

12-16-2013

I'm only a silver player but playing a few games against Teemo and Shaco have been a little disastrous to say the least.

In my experience (ADC main) Teemo's shrooms are beyond op at this point; they deal a vast amount of damage and are so easily spammable that running into them is a given. Instead of having to hide them in bushes or whatnot Teemos are simply spamming them along commonly taken jungle routes and causing players to hit 4-5 of them in one go. There's no alternative other than to B at this point IF you even survived the ludicrous damage output. How is that a better, more fun alternative than just having oracles in the first place? Nerfing Teemo's only genuinely good ability isn't really an option; changing an integral part of the item system was just a bad decision.

It's no surprise that there have been way more Teemo players in games over preseason; at least I have seen a much more wide use of the champion.

Shaco is another problem though not as bad. But since Stealth has no real counter now Shaco can approach you without any kind of punishment. Shaco wasn't a great champion before preseason but now he's much more viable in a gimmicky way.

In my opinion both the Oracle's removal and Pink Ward changes are just... terrible. Why would you ever place a visible ward..? It's so much a nerf that it crushed the item into oblivion.

I know it's preseason and I also know that it's a good time to be trying these ideas. But the vision changes are not conducive to fun or more rewarding play.


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garwai

Member

12-17-2013

If I could voice a suggestion?

Bring back Oracle's, but make the change so only stealthed champions and invisible traps are revealed.

The major concern I have with the removal of Oracle's is only Teemo. Teemo wasn't underpowered when Oracle's existed, and he isn't necessarily overpowered with it removed. However, it did remove the remote possibility of being able to find his shrooms, which needs to be addressed.


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Mathbalnase

Senior Member

12-17-2013

Quote:
garwai:
The major concern I have with the removal of Oracle's is only Teemo. Teemo wasn't underpowered when Oracle's existed, and he isn't necessarily overpowered with it removed. However, it did remove the remote possibility of being able to find his shrooms, which needs to be addressed.


Pinks
Sweeper
keep an eye on teemo when he's nearby (shrooms are visible momentarily when placed, and can even be attacked and killed in this time; attacks will prolong the duration of their visibility)
punish teemo for dicking around in the jungle by pushing down towers (you know, the things that actually matter if you're trying to win the game?), ganking other lanes, or even just getting yourself nice and fat farming those enemy minions without his interference

if you never find the shroom, it was probably a wasted placement
if you find it by stepping on it, you screwed up


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CrimsonAlkemist

Member

12-17-2013

Well...we could bring back pink wards to invisible, but it is not mandatory.

The real problem here is the direction Riot is taking with the red trinket.

The item culmination should not be short bursts of 8 seconds duration every minute
This doesn't give enough time to effectively clear wards and traps in an area (and I am not even factoring in the harass you may experience while trying).

We need the Greater lens to be like the current Oracle lens. And the Orable Lens to be a 30-second oracle that can be activated every 90 seconds. Longer activation, longer cooldown.


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Mathbalnase

Senior Member

12-17-2013

Quote:
CrimsonAlkemist:
Orable Lens to be a 30-second oracle that can be activated every 90 seconds. Longer activation, longer cooldown.

Because what we really need to do is not only reintroduce Oracle's Elixer, but also to massively buff it!
/sarcasm


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Stacona

Senior Member

12-17-2013

Oracles never stopped Eve anyways - you can get oracles for 475 gold with red trinket, now shut up and keep the overpowered item out of the game - Old Oracles cannot be balanced PERIOD end of discussion... Get use to Trinkets cause the Old Oracles is NEVER coming back and for good reasons~


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