so, why does warmogs armour suck again?

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fradam

Member

12-21-2010

well, im thinking of getting a tank, malphite to be specific. And i have been researching on him just to make sure he is a perfect person for me to get. So i found out he was PERFECT for me. every move he had from passive to ulti he looked awesome. after reading all the guilds and watching lots of youtube videos on him i started thinking of a good build for him. In not 1 of the guilds it said to get a warmogs armour (WA). So im thinking if i should get one for him because his passive uses 10% of his maximum health for a shield. And WA is the perfect fit. It is cheaper than Frozen Mallet and gives you more health. it easily gives you 1000 HP. the only difference is Frozen Mallet slows the oppownent on hit. but malphites 1st 3rd and ulti abbilities slow. So should i get a WA? PLZ HELP ME


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FckMan

Recruiter

12-21-2010

i always go for the warmogs. tack on FoN and Randuin's, massive health regen. warmog maxes out at 1350 hp iirc.


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Carados

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Because HP regeneration is a worthless stat in team fights. You're paying a few hundred gold so they can pay tens of gold to negate the regen.

Edit: Regrowth pendant is 2.8 HP a second for 475 gold. Long Sword is over about 5 damage per second (after armor) for 415 gold. It just gets worse the more gold you spend on it. It takes about 2x as much gold to outpace damage scaling, ignoring that carries often have better creep kills then you would.


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AreYouReady2Die

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Senior Member

12-21-2010

Mundo loooves his warmog's, so much that mundo buys 2! Mundo loves his warmog's so mundo much, mundo add in atma's and spirit visage and den mundo gets to hear, people go squish!

Seriously though, it's great just never buy 2 unless your mundo, atma's is semi decent for malph, but I perfer warmog's, abyss scepter (usually just negation cloak and usually banshee unless their caster/disable weak)(mpen), randuins or thornmail, sunfire.


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Neokenfu

Senior Member

12-21-2010

I'd start with Randuin's because its better than either of those other two items(so much so that it was nerfed last patch but its still really amazing). CDR on Malph is amazing! I'd actually recommend going: doran's shield/mana pot/heart of gold/sunfire/change heart into randuins/banshee veil. Place the banshee veil earlier if you have hardcore magic damage like karthus/kennen/etc.

Some people even like going ruby(HP) crystal and then haunting guise first for magic pen. I'm a new malph also and that's what I've found so far. It makes a big difference which abilities you want to use because Q & R are magic based and W & E are physical damage/armor based. I personally will be heading the route of AP Tank Malph because my favorite abilities are Q + R. No matter what though you should be quite tanky. Another reason I enjoy malph is that he can go with all those huge armor/HP items and still pack a punch late game. He's a great initiator as well and quite survivable.

Please go the tank route or you might be at the end of a game going: "They look like big, good, strong hands, don't they? I always thought that's what they were. -Rock Biter "The NeverEnding Story"


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SynergyDreamer

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Because getting resistances literally multiplies your effective HP, meanwhile getting a mere 1000 HP is nothing in comparison unless if you already have high resistances (ie: Rammus).
100 Armor or Magic Resist = 100% Effective HP. Most characters end the game with 2000 HP, I'd rather buy 100 armor for 4000 effective HP than just have 3000 HP. Or something along the lines of that, these bogus calculations are very iffy.


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gunther2291

Senior Member

12-21-2010

theyre called guides sir


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Kouri

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Senior Member

12-21-2010

As some of the people above me have pointed out it is much more effective for a tank to build the armor and MR you need and get items that also have health. Randuin's (built in pieces to maximize the effectiveness of heart of gold), Banshees for health, mana, and the shield, other such items are great tank items because they give you a lot of armor and MR while giving you health.

Building pure health (which is all warmogs is) does not make you tankier (unless you are rammus) because at that point the flat armor/magic pen that carries will (or should) have will effectively negate your base armor and mr making you take an extra maybe 2 or 3 hits for that extra 1000 health. Not very tanky, if you had instead gotten a Randuin's (80 armor and 300 health) you would be reducing their damage by 50% making you take twice as long to die. Warmogs is also VERY expensive for what it gives, which is basically just health. In a straight up fight regen is basically negligible unless you are a fully built regen tank, which takes at least 60+ minutes which very few games actually last. And at this point everyone should have some survivability anyway.

But back on topic, the main reasons Warmog's is a bad idea on a tank: it will slow down you getting tanky considerably because all you get out of it is health, which doesn't make you tankier if the enemy has any damage. Tanks are also generally not very good at farming, and Warmog's needs to be on someone who can get the 100 creep kills to charge it up. Also by the time you get the Warmog's the laning phase will likely be over further hindering your farming ability.

So in conclusion:
1. Warmog's doesn't really make you tankier it just gives you more health (there is a difference).
2. Warmog's is very cost ineffective and even less so on someone who isn't a great farmer (hint Sivir is one of the few champions who can effectively use it).


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Lancefighter

Senior Member

12-21-2010

In my personal item efficiency calculations, it is slightly more effective than the base items (belt, regen pendant), just by the base stats. If you build it fully, its more efficient by a good ways.

However, the issue seems to be that it isnt actually useful - I build it as an item after omen+fon on my shen, but I dont rush it first or anything. Pure hp isnt as useful as you might think, and often building mr/armor items are better by a good deal.

but, if your left over on a tank and arent facing a heavy ad or heavy ap team, warmogs seems to be a suitable tank item.


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

12-21-2010

How many of these threads do i have to stop the **** out of before they go away? Let me make something abundantly clear. People who regurgitate the same BS reasons as to why Warmog's is a crappy item that people were giving 3 months ago with nothing but bunk for evidence makes me very sad. Those reasons were wrong before they remade the item, and they are even more wrong today.

You see, after you walk through the door that says now exiting mamby pamby land and enter the real word...the truth comes out. Instead of opinions, lies, and dam lies...we have these little things in the real world called numbers. We use these numbers to do something called math. We use this math to make informed decisions that provide accurate and reproducible results. Rather than rewrite the already written...you can find a link to a thread with my comments on this here (notice the graph at the bottom of page 1).

Summary:

1. Warmogs mathematically provides more EHP than any other item in the game at almost all feisable values against roughly balanced incoming damage...ecspacially after the remake that allows it to more easily be farmed up to its full capacity quickly.

2. Other than the massive amount of EHP and Hp5, it proivdes little else to champions...making other items with unique properties more appeling in many cases.

3. When enemies are extreamly lopsided in the damage type they deal to you, other choices become more cost effecient including RO( +80% physical) and BV (+80% magical)

4. Warmogs becomes more effecient the more AR/MR you happen to have...and only further outperfoms all other items the more AR/MR you get/have.

5. Warmog's becomes less effecient the more HP you accumulate...however, it still far surpasses most items at the ranges typical for most late game champions (ie 1.7-2k HP @ lvl 18 ), This effect generally makes stacking it, or grabbing it on champions with alternative items or means that push their HP above 2.5-3k less effecient than adding further AR/MR.

6. A perticular champions playstyle and unique synergies to Warmogs can make it a better choice for some than others. Malphite benifits from the HP with his passive. He is also a very strong laner with excellent harrass capacity. Warmogs plays well with this due to the poking hit and run nature it can take on. Hp5 is well utilized by this style, and the HP will buffer his sheild, allowing him to take even less counter harrassment every 8 sec or so. Malphite is also excellent at tower diving and pushing/farming minions, so buidlung up Warmogs to full capacity should not be hard for him. It will however delay his damage output, and without proper specing in runes and masteries he will have a hard time maintaining mana. There are many items that probably outshine Warmogs to this end on malphite that one would likely be better off taking. Haunting Guise for instance adds significant DPS to his Nuke(Q) through the AP and Mpen, while also buffing his shield with HP at the same time. It also is very cheap in comparision, and has less value late game. You will find with almost every item, this same give and take.

Personally, as a long time malphite player, i would tend to avoid it for other choices. However, Warmogs as an item is extreamly viable on many champions and in many builds. To that end, i would not discourage experimentation with it on malphite, but see other choices as more effecient and effective for both pure tanking and aggressive harrassing/pushing builds.

Stay Rock Solid,

-gap81


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