Shyvana in Season 4

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copperpoint

Senior Member

11-26-2013

I would have no problem loosing a bit of that early power for a better lategame and maybe some more tactical options.

She defianetyl can be powerful in lane and jungle, although I yet have to see a match where she actually wins and not just survives. ^^
In all honesty, I am not a good enough player to win with her against riven, Jax, Renekton... not to mention any form of poker.

If somebody knows where I can watch a match with a good shyvana top then please give me a link. Maybe I am really doing something wrong.


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Dark Nephthys

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperpoint View Post
I would have no problem loosing a bit of that early power for a better lategame and maybe some more tactical options.

She defianetyl can be powerful in lane and jungle, although I yet have to see a match where she actually wins and not just survives. ^^
In all honesty, I am not a good enough player to win with her against riven, Jax, Renekton... not to mention any form of poker.

If somebody knows where I can watch a match with a good shyvana top then please give me a link. Maybe I am really doing something wrong.
I've beaten Rivens, Jaxs, Ireila, and Nasus's a lot with Shyvana top lane (never faught Renekton with her yet). I've even beat people bringing adc's top lane (Cait, Quinn, Jinx) then again I am a tanky champion.

Personally she is amazing for top lane, and I know some people can say that I only beaten some of those champs because of the enemy laner being bad or some thing but either way she can easily destroy a lot of people top lane.

Honestly with Shyvana, I try to be passive until level 3 and then jump all in. I always bring Flash/Ignite, however I'll some times feel like trying to shut down enemy laner and bring Exhuast/Ignite to ensure that each fight I have some thing for them. My runes with her are the general AD Red/Quints, Scaling MR Glyphs and Armor Seals (Only just recently started buying life steal Quints and will prob use it when I get 3 of them). Currently with Shyavana and not being entirely use to the Masteries yet, I use 0/30/0 with my AD Runes page like I said.

Start with either Dorians Shield/Pots, Cloth/Pots, Boots/Pots, or one of the gold items/Pots (Really depends on who your facing) I generally don't have much trouble in lanning phase unless I'm up against Teemo/Jayce/Kayle due to range and CC. Although Teemo can be easy to kill if you surprise them with a fight when they think your just trying to CS.

And no, I'm not saying I'm a good Shyvana and I wouldn't advise you to watch me lol, I'm just saying that she is really strong and can beat most of the champs that goes top if your aggressive enough. Although some times you might be really counter-picked or against some one that is much better and your forced to play passive until you get your first item (Which for me is usually Randiuns or Ravenous Hydra. Again depends on who I'm facing)


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copperpoint

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Well ok. Lets say Im just not good enough play with her well top.

Still. Her Ulti and design problems remain.
Besides marks and talents, there is just no way to buy penetration against a tanky opponent.
While at the same time she isnt a real tank either.

And I still love the idea of her dragon-E setting an area on fire. ^^


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EffectFX

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Senior Member

11-27-2013

She doesn't really need penetration because she deals consistent mixed damage, you don't ever see Jax's buying pen items. Her only issue is that her ult is interrupt-able and the CC on it isn't consistent. She's actually becoming such a must pick/ban right now she'll probably be nerfed.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

11-28-2013

Testing around with her in top/jungle.

Top: Ad marks, armor yellow, CDR blues (5%)+MR/LV, LS Quints
Jungle: ATS marks (not sure on that yet) ", ", MS Quints

Talents: 6/21/3 can work - although you can put some more points into the offense treee for the ad/LV and +5 AD skills as well and a bit less in the tank tree.

She can do well with the offense tree, but considering the big regen skills in the tank tree and Tenacity, I think she does better with most points there.

Note: I usually ALWAYS take 5%CDR runes and 5% CDR skill for 10% CDR on LV1. Ive seen builds with CDR Quints as well. She just feels so sluggish once you get used to it.


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TecToNiiC

Senior Member

11-28-2013

Shyvana is definitely my favorite champ and at least at my elo i have no trouble beating most top laners i play against which includes jax/riven/renek and even people who are supposed to counter shy like teemo(seriously all u have to do is all in him at 2 or 3 and its gg). I did always have trouble with nasus(havnt played against the new less sustain one yet) as i play very aggressively and her w if used to attack pushes the enemy under their turret and that is just what nasus wants but that was my own fault anyway.

I'm still working with the new masteries trying to find my favorite set up as i used to run her 9-21-0 on the old masteries but with the new ones and not getting %pen til late in red i am again using 9-21-0 or what i have been trying lately is 14-16-0.

i really like the 14-16-0 setup as it allows me to grab spell and blade weaving, which i really like on her as her w will pretty much get u the 3% alone for your basic attacks and an AA followed by Q will fill the 3% for your spells. It also lets me get the executioner which is a nice bonus to damage when the enemy drops low. I still manage to pick up perseverance in the blue tree as well as it definitely helps with her sustain in combo with a dorans shield top start.

The current runes that I'm using and was using in season 3 as well are:

AS quints, Hybrid pen reds(god these were expensive but so worth), armor yellows, and scaling mr blues.

I know its weird to have the AS quints when i already had the AS marks for most of my junglers but i love the hybrid pen reds too much to give up so i sacrificed the AD quints for these AS quints and now i can still keep the hybrid pen when i jungle as the 10% AS still lets me proc the machete enough to clear with not too much damage and especially with new smite and hp returned on the machete i take even less damage.

All that being said, i don't think she is in a position to be nerfed. i think she fits interestingly in the current meta as a sort of semi counter to many bruisers as a lot of champs have trouble early resisting her mixed damage. My biggest problem is like everyone else has said: WHY IS HER ULT INTERRUPTABLE!!!!. I am a giant dragon flying across the battle field and you are gonna tell me that this little bear trap with a cupcake in it just stopped me and it also has the annoying unreliable cc but to be fair that is not the simplest thing to code when you have multiple champs moving in multiple directions unless it comes down to adding her direction vector to direction vector of the champ she is hitting(i havnt coded in a while so im prolly wrong but you get the idea).

All in all i love shy and hope they don't nerf her!!


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copperpoint

Senior Member

11-28-2013

Do you use ATS Quints in lane as well ?

On her ulti - yea there is quite some room for improvement.

About the hard to code cc that she is supposed to have in her ulti:
If it just doesnt work as intended, then just redesign the cc effect.
Immune to cc in fly and and aoe knockup centered on her on landing.
Or remove the cc and give her a blast like aoe effect where she lands.

These are just some ideas and I hope Riot hasnt stopped testing stuff on her since some changes leaked to the pbe by accident.


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TecToNiiC

Senior Member

11-29-2013

I do run the AS quints in lane. Partially because I really like AS her as my normal build involves BORK as i love that item for her and it helps her beat tanks while still having the damage to beat squishies and partially because I don't have an extra rune page to run something different like AD or MS in that spot.

Since BORK is a part of my build in almost every game combined with the 10% AS from my quints and the 5% from masteries i find this be great for her q as i am constantly bringing it off cooldown with more AS for more autos and the lifesteal from BORK isn't enough to bring her to like jax level lifesteal obviously but there have definitely been fights where it has saved me. The active on BORK also helps her to stick to people too.

Usually after starting doran's shield and then going for early BORK(or just cutlass if i need to get tanky quick as i like the active for her and the lifesteal for sustain) + (Armor or MR depending on enemy) i build tanky items after that usually Randiuns + Something from spectre's cowl. Boots are pretty much between ninja tabi, merc treads, and sorc shoes(fun to watch how much you do to someone who hasn't built much mr ). In the end if i really still need more MR but not too much hp, Wit's End is a great pick up on her as between that and BORK your extra damage on hit is huge and you will have your q off cooldown so quick with the 97% attack speed increase. I also really like frozen mallet on her as well for sticking to targets and in dragon form a Q with frozen slows everyone it hits. The buildpath for frozen is kind of annoying but I really like it in the end.

A usually decent build for shyvana is what i like to call her "blue build" similar to the idea of blue ezreal just find blue items and it tends to work. sure the spirit visage upgrade is no longer blue/purplish but that item is just too good to pass up especially the 20% cdr to help keep W and E available as much as possible.

BORK+Merc Treads/Sorc Shoes+Randuin's+Spectres Cowl Upgrade+Frozen Mallet+Wit's End/GA/Ran out of blue items


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Hippo77

Senior Member

11-29-2013

Hm…not really sure if I would go AS quints for lane. Really benefits her jungle but in lane…I think I'd still prefer LS or MS quints. Perhaps can really work since you go BotRK + Wit's End and perhaps you even use AS marks with the AS quints. Just odd since her major damage and advantage in lane comes from her W + E + high base damage.
Not too sure since I'd really want that early advantage against the Jax/Riven/Nasus and come out way ahead.

But really, she's so strong right now that you should just get a feel for her up top. Know when to pop the W and win trades. Know when to use E to range-harass or farm with even. She's so strong right now you shouldn't have much trouble against the common tops like Jax/Renek/Nasus/Riven even if still trying to get a feel for laning.


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TecToNiiC

Senior Member

11-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippo77 View Post
Hm…not really sure if I would go AS quints for lane. Really benefits her jungle but in lane…I think I'd still prefer LS or MS quints. Perhaps can really work since you go BotRK + Wit's End and perhaps you even use AS marks with the AS quints. Just odd since her major damage and advantage in lane comes from her W + E + high base damage.
Not too sure since I'd really want that early advantage against the Jax/Riven/Nasus and come out way ahead.

But really, she's so strong right now that you should just get a feel for her up top. Know when to pop the W and win trades. Know when to use E to range-harass or farm with even. She's so strong right now you shouldn't have much trouble against the common tops like Jax/Renek/Nasus/Riven even if still trying to get a feel for laning.
Even though I currently use them I'm still not sure the AS quints for lane are my best bet either but like I explained above, because of my rune pages I don't have the space to have one with AS quints for Jungle and MS quints for lane. (and those ms quints are so damn expensive and with them hinting at rune changes in season 4, i'm hoping for a possible price drop on them before i get my last 2)

You can also see that i use hybrid pen reds not the AS marks which i started using in season 3 and loved them but especially in season 4 with hybrid pen being far down the red tree i find this mandatory as it is hard for the enemy to itemize against very early. As for her trading combo I would disagree with you there as she is not as bursty as most other top laners but can sustain her damage so my normal trade combo looks like: E > W > aa > q > then another aa or use the rest of w to leave.

Most games i have not been getting around to building wit's end lately as i feel like BORK is giving me all the damage i need but my only reason to keep those AS quints instead of AD is her AD scaling kinda sucks anyway so I would rather have the AS for possibly one more BORK proc.

i'm not trying to contradict you as obviously people can play the champs multiple ways and have success. i just feel like my reply comes off as being an ass and that's not what i'm going for lol