Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Runes: How much do they really matter past early game?

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lancefighter

Senior Member

12-21-2010

So the general consensus is that yes, the early game advantage of flat hp/etc is considerably more advantageous than the lategame benefit.

As I understand this goes a lot for stuff like junglers as well; the first few levels are the hardest to be jungleing at, with the low base armor and hp and all that.

Thanks


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CheerUpEmoKids

Recruiter

12-21-2010

Quote:
Mambazo:
What are you basing this assertion on? Flat gives .65% cdr, scaling gives .9% at 18. so they match at lvl 13 and scaling passes flat at 14. Is that not a reason to use scaling on certain heroes? Back up your arguments with at least SOMETHING so people can attempt to learn from your post otherwise you have wasted your own time and the time it takes others to read your worthless post.


You gave the reason right there. You won't see a plus side till level 14. Congrats on that. Flat CDR is better period for the fact that early and mid game decide 99% of games.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

biomorph

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Pantheon is a prime example of how well armor penetration runes help especially early game. It does also for any physical champion but Pantheon HSS also benefits greatly.
With ArPen marks and quits + Sunder mastery you have 31 ArPen which means you ignore that much armor and so they mitigate that less damage. For low armor champions (Ashe et all) who start with some 40ish armor (I think about there, but lets say so for sake of argument) you ignore about 3/4 of her armor (not to confuse with how much % it mitigates) and you will cut her down like warm knife through butter. As champions gain levels so does their armor and your penetration ratio of total armor declines.
And if we look the other way and face high armor champions and you have no ArPen you will deal virtually zero damage to them.
Bottom line espeically physical champions gain huge benefit early game with ArPen.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CopyPasteMezzYou

Recruiter

12-21-2010

Quote:
Mambazo:
What are you basing this assertion on? Flat gives .65% cdr, scaling gives .9% at 18. so they match at lvl 13 and scaling passes flat at 14. Is that not a reason to use scaling on certain heroes? Back up your arguments with at least SOMETHING so people can attempt to learn from your post otherwise you have wasted your own time and the time it takes others to read your worthless post.



As was already mentioned, the first reason that flat is better than scaling is due to how long it takes to recover the difference from the flat. Lets go on to look at all the important numbers

.65 * 9 = 5.85 (flat)
.05(lvl 1) * 9 = .45 (scaling)
difference at level 1 = 5.45 % in favor of flat

.65 * 9 = 5.85 (flat)
.3(lvl 6) * 9 = 2.7 (scaling)
difference at level 6 = 3.15% in favor of flat

.65 * 9 = 5.85 (flat)
.55(lvl 11) * 9 = 4.95 (scaling)
difference at level 11 = .9% in favor of flat

.65 * 9 = 5.85 (flat)
.8(lvl 16) * 9 = 7.2 (scaling)
difference at level 16 = 1.35% in favor of scaling

.65 * 9 = 5.85 (flat)
.9 (lvl 18) * 9 = 8.1 (scaling)
difference at 18 = 2.25 % in favor of scaling

Now notice that the flat are much better for both the early and the mid game, this will grant more ult usage at the early levels as well as early game harrass spam, both of which are very useful for your champions.

Additionally, since you are using cooldown runes, you are probably very interested in cooldowns so are probably at least running some cooldown masteries if not all. If you are using 9 0 21 for your masteries, then Flat Runes + Masteries gives you 14.85% Flat cooldown, so now you are only 25% away from cap, you are able to nearly cap (.15% away from cap) with a single item, or a blue buff. With the Scaling if you build CDR at 18 you will actually go over cap with blue or 25% from items, granted you could only purchase 20% but then you'll find yourself almost 3% shy of the cap.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

jokull

Senior Member

12-21-2010

it depends entirely on your personal playstyle. i prefer scaling runes for the extra gold value it gives me, and i just rely on more careful play early to avoid giving up an early advantage. early game is important, but since most games are finished during the lategame phase, maybe that set of scaling runes is what let you come back and get that one important kill and burst just a little harder, when it all comes down to luck and chance either way.

tl;dr it depends on you, whichever you feel is the best, is the best for your playstyle


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PineapplePine

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Doing true damage hurts... but that is only for early game
But late game it'll just be 10-20-30% more damage... which still hurts...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Carados

Senior Member

12-22-2010

Quote:
Mambazo:
What are you basing this assertion on? Flat gives .65% cdr, scaling gives .9% at 18. so they match at lvl 13 and scaling passes flat at 14. Is that not a reason to use scaling on certain heroes? Back up your arguments with at least SOMETHING so people can attempt to learn from your post otherwise you have wasted your own time and the time it takes others to read your worthless post.


Flat + Masteries = 15% CDR.

Scaling + Masteries = 19.something% CDR.

If you really want CDR, the extra 4.decimals is going to be wasted considering you're going to buy items, so why bother and just use the runes which are good all game?


Welcome to League of Legends, it's obvious you're new here.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dark Sativa

Senior Member

12-22-2010

I like to jungle, and prefer scaling runes. Most catch up to flat runes around lv 6, on Udyr jungling it doesn't make a spot of difference before that, and you don't really start ganking til then anyway. However, for a laner I would probably get flat runes. That kill you can get at a much stronger lv 1 or 2 can really make a huge difference.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cenerae

Senior Member

12-22-2010

As far as CDR runes go, flat usually makes more sense. Why? Because if you add the 5.85% you get from the flat runes, plus the 9% you get from masteries, you have 13.85% CDR, rounded up to 14%. With golem buff, you get +25% CDR, for a total of 39% CDR. If you get any item with CDR, or are affected by a soul shroud, and you have a blue elixir (which is quite likely late game), you'll get the same effect CDR wise as if you had a golem buff. (Possibly higher, but I can't recall offhand if the blue elixir is 15% or not anymore, so I assumed it was 10 to be on the safe side)

The scaling runes give you an extra few % that you don't really need, but they're also weaker until later into the game.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ChanceDriven

Senior Member

12-22-2010

Why bother? At mid-high levels you have items. At level 1 you have runes. If you don't have them or have scaling then you have nothing and the enemy has good boosts. You die. Respawn. They have items AND runes. You die again... I bet money you can see where this goes.

And at level 18 I just don't care about .9*9= 8.1% vs 5.85% CDR. If I want it that bad I will include it in my build.


123