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Runes: How much do they really matter past early game?

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Lancefighter

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Mostly, im looking at things like mpen/apen.. Many guides seem to recommend these, however I cant really see how useful another ~10 penetration is later in the game.

Some things, like mana regen/level, I can really feel being useful, especially around midgame. Stuff like dodge would seem to theoretically scale the best, being that %reduction of all autoattack damage seems to add up to a great deal later in the game. its been mentioned that movespeed quints are the best quints to have outside of hp quints (for early laning)

I could also see such things as cdr working potentially up with the dodge runes - cdr is something that is usually not built for, it seems.. throwing down a set of cdr blues for ~7% cdr, added to masteries etc, seems a fairly good deal.

However, how useful is another 10 ad? maybe 20 ap? Sure, for akali, those numbers are whats needed to proc both passives from spawn, meaning a huge early-game boost. But past that, will you really feel that you have 20 more ap than a similar akali without that rune page? Once you both have a gunblade or whatnot built, does whats on your rune page particularly matter?

That argument seems to hold somewhat for apen and mpen as well.. Items like last whisper, giving %apen are far more useful than having a flat ~10 apen from marks.

Some items, Crit damage being a main one, are literally impossible to itemize, outside of IE. Yet, I see people saying that building crit damage runes is a bad idea..

Similar arguments can be made for masteries, except a lot of those seem a good deal more useful. Things like above, cdr, movespeed, %mpen.. %damage reduced (only levi at max stacks does that) %damage increased, which nothing does.

What this post really boils down to, if you are looking for a slightly shorter version, is this question: What runes will scale best into the late game? and less importantly, is the early game so much incredibly more important that your entire rune page is dedicated to the earlygame such that your lategame is that much worse?


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Yendoc

Senior Member

12-21-2010

.


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Hannor

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Cdr/lvl scae very well into lategame.


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Carados

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Quote:
Hannor:
Cdr/lvl scae very well into lategame.

They don't, actually. There is literally no reason to use them over CDR/Flat.


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Alex Pan

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Early game advantage -> Late game advantage


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IdleAltruism

Senior Member

12-21-2010

It really depends on what champ you're playing.

Early game characters are going to build to strengthen that early game (runes probably couldn't help them late anyways). Similarly, heroes with bad early games will build runes to help them with it (extra HPs/MR/Armor go a long way in making champs less squishy early). So for example, a caster like Annie is going to want to get the most out of her early game as possible. She's going to do the most damage there, so she better specialize in doing that.

Carries will build for late game. A lot of carry rune pages will take things like scaling magic resist glyphs (it provides a fair chunk of MR). Crit chances is also an incredibly potent stat on them. Some other common runes include attack speed and CDR (there aren't exactly that many rune options for Glyphs and Seals when it comes to hard carries, so they often take sub-optimal offensive runes for those slots).

Armor Pen can scale into late game quite fabulously. Using armor pen quints+marks+masteries gives 31 Arpen right off the bat. Late game that will be 1/2 to 1/3 of a squishies armor, which could potentially be anywhere from 10-30% extra damage. Not only that, but early game it often means that the carry is doing true damage to most enemies, which is great for early kills. Buying something like a brutalizer/ghostblade makes this 50+Apen.

Magic pen is similar. Not many heroes have scaling magic resist so it'll stay quite low for a very long time on many heroes, until they start up their Banshees.

In short, certain runes can scale nicely into mid-late game. For most champs, though, getting runes for early-mid game just makes more sense (and runes are typically more potent at those times as well).


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Cenerae

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Look at it this way:

Most runes are only really beneficial till around the mid game. There are no runes I can think of, save energy regen, runspeed, dodge and possibly crit chance that will continue to be really worth it past that.

With this in mind, why try to get 'late game' runes, at the cost of your early game? If you have a strong early game, it sets you up for the late game. If your runes don't help you much early, it's much harder to get the wheels of your war machine turning. Even if you did have better late game runes, the actual benefits are still going to be relatively minor compared to what your gear will be doing for you by then.


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Ekir Atari

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Quote:
Cenerae:
Look at it this way:

Most runes are only really beneficial till around the mid game. There are no runes I can think of, save energy regen, runspeed, dodge and possibly crit chance that will continue to be really worth it past that.

With this in mind, why try to get 'late game' runes, at the cost of your early game? If you have a strong early game, it sets you up for the late game. If your runes don't help you much early, it's much harder to get the wheels of your war machine turning. Even if you did have better late game runes, the actual benefits are still going to be relatively minor compared to what your gear will be doing for you by then.


This.

My runepages are completely dedicated to my early game. Why? Because if I feed early, it's going to be SO much harder to recover and even HAVE a late game. Early game is the most important and critical time. Since teams are (relatively) balanced at the start of the game, you need that edge so that your team gets the early advantage.

From my point of view... You can be fairly certain that your opponents *will* be runing (runeing? is this even a word?) for their early game so they can wipe you out. There are exceptions for specific strategies, but you won't find much of that in a solo queue. Given this, you need to either rune yourself to counter your early-game weaknesses or to build on your early game strengths.

Just my opinion - nothing more.


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Shamanb

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Full rune page = roughly 1k gold of items max.

So end game that's about 10% of total gold earned. Does it matter ? Yes.

No it's not gamebreaking necessarily, but if the entire other team farmed 1k gold each more then your team, don't worry, you'll feel it :P.


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Mambazo

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Quote:
Carados:
They don't, actually. There is literally no reason to use them over CDR/Flat.


What are you basing this assertion on? Flat gives .65% cdr, scaling gives .9% at 18. so they match at lvl 13 and scaling passes flat at 14. Is that not a reason to use scaling on certain heroes? Back up your arguments with at least SOMETHING so people can attempt to learn from your post otherwise you have wasted your own time and the time it takes others to read your worthless post.


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