@Riot. Why push out traditional supports?

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Zecora

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Upvoting without a reply is a sin.

By now I'm sure everyone is aware of what's going on, even with some discussion over it.

Traditional supports, Nami, Sona, Janna, Lulu, etc. are getting a big ol' nerf bat to their abilities and gameplay. (Taric and Leona, bruisers in a sense, seem to be safe)

How are traditional supports being pushed out of their only real role? Simple.

By adding more gold flow with support items, items which offer AP to compensate for the nerf to traditional supports scaling and ratio's, Riot is offering an even BETTER deal for mages with any utility to step in and do this job much better. Zyra, Annie, Fiddlesticks, Lux, etc will be able to keep their already high stats, build MORE ap with additional gold and support items that offer additional AP, all while keeping a level of utility a "Support" would need.

Just look at Annie, her only form of CC is her passive, which requires her to use four spells to charge. Even with this one hard stun, Annie is already a more popular support than say, Taric or Sona, who can sustain the ADC while using a stun.

Why is this?

Obviously, damage will be favorable to utility. The faster you can kill the enemy adc, the larger lead you will have. In creeps, towers, kills, and gold. New supports like Annie or Fiddlesticks will now be able to burst down the enemy, while providing that Stun Tibbers or 3 second fear silence combo. Meanwhile, Sona, Lulu or Janna will now need to build excessive amounts of AP to be comparable to their previous stats. The problem is obvious. Why pick Sona when you have Annie? Why use Janna or Lulu for poke comps when Zyra will do that job so much better? Why have Taric as a tanky inititor when Lissandra can hold them down for longer periods of time?

Riot, you shouldn't nerf traditional supports. And you obviously shouldn't nerf mages to bring them in line with supports. The solution is finding a balance between keeping traditional supports in line with normal mages.

You don't want Lulu to go top or Janna to go mid because it isn't their role; so you nerf their ratios. But you allow Zyra and Annie to support, because why not? THEY can have more than one role, right?

TL;DR: Traditional supports will get compensated for the nerfs in new items and gold. Items and gold which will better suite non traditional supports with higher ratios. This reeks of bad game balance and frankly, laziness in an attempt to forcefully shift the meta.

What are your thoughts on this? And I would really love for Riot to give us an actual explanation, just to see if they thought of this outcome at all.


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Zecora

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Feel the need to bump for responses.


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Zecora

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Last bump for discussion.


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SiIly LiIly

Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Helix View Post
You don't want Lulu to go top or Janna to go mid because it isn't their role; so you nerf their ratios. But you allow Zyra and Annie to support, because why not? THEY can have more than one role, right?

As a fan of Lulu top, this part really speaks to me about the whole nerfs, pushing the supports into exclusively botlane.
You don't give more income to support and nerf the **** out of them so they need to build 300AP just to be as effective as their s3 self, while also nerfing their other styles of play to the ground.

Sometimes the champions we play, and how and where we play them are exclusive to us, and they define us as players, that's why we get so upset when you 'fix' something that we love and enjoy to play. *Coughs* Old karma. s4 support nerfs. *coughs*
pls stop stifling other ways of play, this game would be extremely boring if you enforce this meta game and keep reworking champions into something completely different than they are.

Just listen even if you don't agree with our concerns, just communicate with us about your thought process behind these huge changes to some of our favorite champions that even keep us playing this game.


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Zecora

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by insomsion View Post
As a fan of Lulu top, this part really speaks to me about the whole nerfs, pushing the supports into exclusively botlane.
You don't give more income to support and nerf the **** out of them so they need to build 300AP just to be as effective as their s3 self, while also nerfing their other styles of play to the ground.

Sometimes the champions we play, and how and where we play them are exclusive to us, and they define us as players, that's why we get so upset when you 'fix' something that we love and enjoy to play. *Coughs* Old karma. s4 support nerfs. *coughs*
pls stop stifling other ways of play, this game would be extremely boring if you enforce this meta game and keep reworking champions into something completely different than they are.

Just listen even if you don't agree with our concerns, just communicate with us about your thought process behind these huge changes to some of our favorite champions that even keep us playing this game.
Exactly. It just seems as though Riot is ignoring the majority of it's customers in a "My game, my rules" kinda way.

Whenever I see Lulu top, Janna mid or Taric jungle, I don't think "Wow, this will be so easy, GG." I think, "How the hell am I suppose to kill her if she turns me into a fuzzy animal under the tower?" It's a nice change of pace.

Hell, even now I welcome seeing Janna or Lulu (Taric too) as a support because I miss them. I'm so tired of having Annie or Fiddles run about as a support, or even a second AP (Nid and Lux "Supports" Amirite?)

But Riot is embracing the new support trend, and giving the old loved supports the boot. Not even allowing them to do their own role correctly, let alone going anywhere besides bottom lane. Soon, Lissandra or Veigar are going to be the new meta for supports.


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

11-20-2013

This is something I've been wondering. Why not just take a non-support who can live with 2-3 items?

My guess is utility mages are going to dominate bot lane early in S4.


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Zecora

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linna Excel View Post
This is something I've been wondering. Why not just take a non-support who can live with 2-3 items?

My guess is utility mages are going to dominate bot lane early in S4.
Exactly. Why do you think Fiddles and Annie are so popular? They have higher ratio's and just scale better.

Lissandra will probably take the role of the CC machine bot lane, kinda like Taric and Leona were.

Zyra will obviously replace Janna and Lulu all together.

Fiddlesticks will probably push Nami out.

And Annie will replace Sona and other ultimate dependant supports. (Tibber stun > Cresendo)