"Hey Sona what do you think of the upcoming support changes?"

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Leo the yordle

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Priamos View Post
I'm just afraid you're going to leave Janna in this gutted state and leave her there for a year. She's already really weak in competitive, but we were fine with that. Now she's just weak everywhere.

We're all just super concerned that Janna/Sona/Lulu are getting nerfed hard, while Annie, who is strong, is getting no nerfs at all.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing the Lulu nerfs being quite as bad as some people are making it out to be.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Splendid Cake

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
Yeah I can sympathize with your concern. I know a lot of supports were very good in the past at getting gold by sneaking farm and having lower ward control in the early game. I think with the amount of changes done to supports this pre-season getting the tuning 100% right on the first pass is a bit of a dream. If I had to guess there's going to be many tweaks in the future to the way supports are tuned to scale utility, but the direction will most likely remain the same. That's what the preseason is for after all.
Jatt I miss your sexy voice. LCS when?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sun Tzu X2

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kri View Post
How much do you want to bet Fiddle and Annie get **** on hard with nerfs because they were used as supports. Look at Zyra, they are already gutting her bit by bit to make her useless as a mid laner. Inb4 Annie's passive is replaced.
They will have to do something because using non Supports as Supports and having those champions DO WAY Better than actual supports is a problem.

Imagine for some reason Tanks had the ability to assassinate better than Zed, Ahri, Kass, etc.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LittleMewMew

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
I think you guys are missing the intent of the support changes, where you see AP ratio reductions and you immediately think the champion is nerfed. Take Sona for example, AP ratio reductions on her Q, and also a big hit to her Ult taking it from 0.8 to 0.5

We need to get something clear: AP is not the only way to scale a champion with gold Sona is not a mage, she is a support. She doesn't need a 0.8 AP ratio on her ultimate to be effective.

But Jatt, what am I going to do with this gold if I can't scale Sona with AP like a mage?
- Sona scales remarkably well with CDR and mana regen. The base values on her abilities are high, and the aura's she provides have ridiculous gold value. Additionally, if you can cycle your spells faster you get substantially more power chords which can make you a beast in teamfights. Also, since you're building CDR you may as well make yourself a little bit tanky. This way when a DFG Ahri comes at you, you might actually have a chance of living for more than .5 seconds.


I'm not saying that support Annie and support Zyra or support Lux who scale like traditional mages aren't going to be effective bot lane, I'm saying that traditional supports have multiple ways of scaling that don't have to include ability power and they are equally as strong. It's going to be a trade-off.

Support Annie and Support Fiddle are going to be better than before. They have AP ratios, they have more gold, they're going to do more damage. Sona and Soraka also have more gold. They get to be tankier, they get to have more CDR, and they get to have a more powerful impact thanks to their increased team utility.

I encourage you all to keep an open mind.
Basically you are telling us what we've been asking Riot to tell us for a while now. Cut your BS about "we encourage versatile champions" you don't. You want supports to ONLY support. So far AP Lulu may still work but I bet it wont be long before you (meaning Riot) get offended by her doing well as something other than support. AD Lulu is pretty much dead though, it's a shame how much Riot has done to force supports to only be supports while Mages like Annie, Lux, Zyra are allowed wherever they want.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Maximum Irelia

Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendid Cake View Post
Jatt I miss your sexy voice. LCS when?
And I miss this sexy face
Name:  JAtt.jpg
Views: 242
Size:  20.5 KB


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kri

Senior Member

11-20-2013

I honestly feel they do nerfs and buffs just to switch FOTM champs. Unnecessary Syndra buff on E, nerfed assassins,Gragas,etc. Now people are using lots of Syndra and Ziggs at the moment. Nerf all the champs used and then watch them use the ones that they buffed or are now better due to the others being nerfed. It seems like a marketing tactic to make sure things aren't too dull to watch.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xhandel

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo the yordle View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing the Lulu nerfs being quite as bad as some people are making it out to be.
is not about how bad they nerfed them, the nerfs on nami and lulu arent too bad, but still these are nerfs, then, why should i pick lulu or nami over annie or fiddles


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Goumindong

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
Support Annie and Support Fiddle are going to be better than before. They have AP ratios, they have more gold, they're going to do more damage. Sona and Soraka also have more gold. They get to be tankier, they get to have more CDR, and they get to have a more powerful impact thanks to their increased team utility.
You uhh. You realize that Annie and Fiddlesticks can build tank and CDR too, and that the reason that they migrated to bottom lane was because the constant nerfs to the utility and strength of the traditional supports meant that their utility outshined and/or threatned the current roster right?

And your solution is to nerf the utility and damage of the current set of support and only give them compensatory effect when they have a large amount of AP and then expect us to think that the alternate options, chosen due to a larger amount of utility, aren't going to be hilariously better?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EUW ForumAcc

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
I think you guys are missing the intent of the support changes, where you see AP ratio reductions and you immediately think the champion is nerfed.
Silly players, always thinking a number reduction means a nerf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
[...]Sona scales remarkably well with CDR and mana regen.
Which is conveniently ~capped at Athene's + Lucidity, if you took the CDR mastery. Also solves the mana problem entirely.

Which was affordable already, although admittedly not in high elo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
The base values on her abilities are high[...]
Wat?
250 is sub-standard. And don't even attempt to argue that it hits two people, other AoE abilities potentially hit 5 people with a higher base damage.

The other abilities aren't looking much better. The heal is a manasink with the effectivity of a health potion unless you're healing two people and her E doesn't HAVE a base value, only utility which is very underwhelming - usually a one-point wonder for the slow. 150-300 damage on ult also is nothing outstanding.

What on earth are you comparing her to? Even if I divide the base stats by cooldown, they're fairly mediocre.

And here's the reason for that, you say it yourself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
[...]and the aura's she provides have ridiculous gold value.
Good thing to know large portions of her power budget are eaten by invisible power.

Oh, and she already has those auras. That's nothing new. Don't bring them up if you compare new to old Sona.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
Additionally, if you can cycle your spells faster you get substantially more power chords which can make you a beast in teamfights. Also, since you're building CDR you may as well make yourself a little bit tanky. This way when a DFG Ahri comes at you, you might actually have a chance of living for more than .5 seconds.
How about just picking Annie and DFGbursting that Ahri into oblivion myself...?

Sounds a bit more appealing to me than "have a chance to live for a bit more than 0.5 seconds".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
I encourage you all to keep an open mind.
I already do that. It's the REASON why I'm so incredibly, uhm...how should I put it...dumbfounded?



Sorry for "dissecting" your post, but cynical remarks are best made on a "per sentence" basis, rather than an entire post.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sun Tzu X2

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Soon there will be Support Ryze, LeBlanc, Syndra, etc