"Hey Sona what do you think of the upcoming support changes?"

First Riot Post
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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MercsGuardian View Post
I will...personally hate Support Annie and Support Fiddle to hell, but Support Zyra/ Support Lux work well enough that they are ok.
Lux and Zyra are not traditional supports!


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Foxbyte

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
I encourage you all to keep an open mind.
My open mind says that this is my last day to play AP Sona mid.


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Best Ahri Earth

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
We need to get something clear: AP is not the only way to scale a champion with gold Sona is not a mage, she is a support. She doesn't need a 0.8 AP ratio on her ultimate to be effective.

But Jatt, what am I going to do with this gold if I can't scale Sona with AP like a mage?
- Sona scales remarkably well with CDR and mana regen. The base values on her abilities are high, and the aura's she provides have ridiculous gold value. Additionally, if you can cycle your spells faster you get substantially more power chords which can make you a beast in teamfights. Also, since you're building CDR you may as well make yourself a little bit tanky. This way when a DFG Ahri comes at you, you might actually have a chance of living for more than .5 seconds.

1. You took a beautiful, versatile champion and pigeonholed her into the support role. (same goes for Janna)
2. Sona couldn't be tanky even if she tried.
3. Annie also scales with CDR. Did you know there's this item called MORELLONOMICON that gives both AP AND CDR? I know, it's mind-boggling. There's another one, too.. it's called a Deathfire Grasp.. oh and let's not forget Cheater's Unholy Grail.


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BACKSTABUUU

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Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Plainview View Post
Lux and Zyra are not traditional supports!
I don't think he was trying to imply that.


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Dryad Soraka

Senior Member

11-20-2013

jatt

pls

stop trying to justify these BS nerfs.
stop.


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Maximum Irelia

Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
I think you guys are missing the intent of the support changes, where you see AP ratio reductions and you immediately think the champion is nerfed. Take Sona for example, AP ratio reductions on her Q, and also a big hit to her Ult taking it from 0.8 to 0.5

We need to get something clear: AP is not the only way to scale a champion with gold Sona is not a mage, she is a support. She doesn't need a 0.8 AP ratio on her ultimate to be effective.

But Jatt, what am I going to do with this gold if I can't scale Sona with AP like a mage?
- Sona scales remarkably well with CDR and mana regen. The base values on her abilities are high, and the aura's she provides have ridiculous gold value. Additionally, if you can cycle your spells faster you get substantially more power chords which can make you a beast in teamfights. Also, since you're building CDR you may as well make yourself a little bit tanky. This way when a DFG Ahri comes at you, you might actually have a chance of living for more than .5 seconds.


I'm not saying that support Annie and support Zyra or support Lux who scale like traditional mages aren't going to be effective bot lane, I'm saying that traditional supports have multiple ways of scaling that don't have to include ability power and they are equally as strong. It's going to be a trade-off.

Support Annie and Support Fiddle are going to be better than before. They have AP ratios, they have more gold, they're going to do more damage. Sona and Soraka also have more gold. They get to be tankier, they get to have more CDR, and they get to have a more powerful impact thanks to their increased team utility.

I encourage you all to keep an open mind.
Yes, yes, yes, yes and um. YES.

Think of this as a move more towards the DotA 2 supports, who obviously don't scale off of items AT ALL. I'm a support main. I couldn't give the slightest shit what the ratios on my skills are, because I'm never going to have even remotely close to the same items as my teammates. Instead, I focus on skillshots, shotcalling, lane manipulation, and vision control. I get that everyone wants to be able to deal over 9000 damage from every role, but that simply isn't possible if there are only 3 lanes worth of cs.

Jatt please post here more, you're a breath of fresh air when it comes to red posts.

Also, I realize this thread wasn't actually serious to begin with, but the amount of QQ over support ratios just astounds me when scaling is the very last thing I could possibly care about on my support champions.


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Popstar Sona

Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
We don't want supports to be anything but supports. They know their place.
ftfy


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Also I am truly amazed that the OP is an image that exists. I don't know why someone drew it, but god bless them.


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Maximum Hexerin

Senior Member

11-20-2013

RIP in peace mageraka. in the interest of buffing supports, riot decided to completely gut your primary source of damage (not that it did much damage anyways)

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Jatt

Associate Game Analyst

11-20-2013
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokkun View Post
@jatt I think a lot of us are going to be trying to make our favorite supports function in the new system.

We just aren't betting that they won't get completely outclassed by other things now. We are doubting that the increased utility with AP is going to help. We are doubting that increased CDR/Regen is going to help a champion that much, when it already doesn't. It's a fallacy to believe we can't get items as a support. There is also a serious disconnect when we are told "get more AP now," and then told "you don't need that AP build something else!"
You just have to sneak farm in, and be more focused with your warding. I get items regularly. They help, but they don't break my champion. Getting equal or less value out of such items does not make me that happy.

Maybe the new item changes will make up the difference. That's actually the aspect I'm hoping and praying makes the difference. Unfortunately, a lot of it just seems to exist to be the parts that give us more gold, rather than be useful with said gold.
Yeah I can sympathize with your concern. I know a lot of supports were very good in the past at getting gold by sneaking farm and having lower ward control in the early game. I think with the amount of changes done to supports this pre-season getting the tuning 100% right on the first pass is a bit of a dream. If I had to guess there's going to be many tweaks in the future to the way supports are tuned to scale utility, but the direction will most likely remain the same. That's what the preseason is for after all.