"Hey Sona what do you think of the upcoming support changes?"

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xxmbabanexx

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Phreak: Ton's of Damage!
Morello: No, no... we need... Ton's of Utility!


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Neurosurgeonwolf

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuujinmaru View Post
Annie already proved that you dont need tons of utility to be a good support champion.

All these changes will just make any champ that can do well in fights or works well off passive farm will be supports instead. Just imagine support Kass, he can probably get more farm from being in bot lane than dueling 1v1 in mid lane. And then you will have someone to follow up on your combo.

Or think of support Anivia. With the new gold income stream she can allow the team to never get 5man pushed on a tower. ALL THE WHILE SHE IS SUPPORT. Allowing a better champ to go mid.

I think nerfing supports across the board is very much the wrong thing to do. You should have just waited to see what the "new support meta" would be and then adjusting accordingly.
I MUST RUN SUPPORT ANIVIA LIKE RIGHT MEOW.

Actually makes some decent amount of sense.


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Mansa TChalla

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Anyone can go 9/21
Anyone can buy these items

Why not play fiddlesticks


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LoLKiru

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu X2 View Post
They will have to do something because using non Supports as Supports and having those champions DO WAY Better than actual supports is a problem.

Imagine for some reason Tanks had the ability to assassinate better than Zed, Ahri, Kass, etc.
Honestly theres a VERY simple way to solve this in theory (though it definitely depends on how you go about doing it)

Riot made a comment a while back that you could take an AP mid support for damage after these changes, and a traditional support for utility (the problem of course being that some mids offer quite a bit of utility just on their own)

The best way to fix this without needlessly killing champs in their normal environment (e.g: pulling a zyra on all the AP mids who go bot now) is to just buff supports utility to the point where its BEYOND what any mid-laner can match, making supports the dominant pick for utility, and mid-laners for damage.

Edit: and im sure someone will bring it up, I would accept this even if it ment nerfing their damage quite a bit to make up for having RIDICULOUS utility (its the lesser of two evils imo)


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Mansa TChalla

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
Yeah I can sympathize with your concern. I know a lot of supports were very good in the past at getting gold by sneaking farm and having lower ward control in the early game. I think with the amount of changes done to supports this pre-season getting the tuning 100% right on the first pass is a bit of a dream. If I had to guess there's going to be many tweaks in the future to the way supports are tuned to scale utility, but the direction will most likely remain the same. That's what the preseason is for after all.

Because you cant put cdr on annie and fiddle sticks


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Maximum Lolicon

Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
I think you guys are missing the intent of the support changes, where you see AP ratio reductions and you immediately think the champion is nerfed. Take Sona for example, AP ratio reductions on her Q, and also a big hit to her Ult taking it from 0.8 to 0.5

We need to get something clear: AP is not the only way to scale a champion with gold Sona is not a mage, she is a support. She doesn't need a 0.8 AP ratio on her ultimate to be effective.

But Jatt, what am I going to do with this gold if I can't scale Sona with AP like a mage?
- Sona scales remarkably well with CDR and mana regen. The base values on her abilities are high, and the aura's she provides have ridiculous gold value. Additionally, if you can cycle your spells faster you get substantially more power chords which can make you a beast in teamfights. Also, since you're building CDR you may as well make yourself a little bit tanky. This way when a DFG Ahri comes at you, you might actually have a chance of living for more than .5 seconds.


I'm not saying that support Annie and support Zyra or support Lux who scale like traditional mages aren't going to be effective bot lane, I'm saying that traditional supports have multiple ways of scaling that don't have to include ability power and they are equally as strong. It's going to be a trade-off.

Support Annie and Support Fiddle are going to be better than before. They have AP ratios, they have more gold, they're going to do more damage. Sona and Soraka also have more gold. They get to be tankier, they get to have more CDR, and they get to have a more powerful impact thanks to their increased team utility.

I encourage you all to keep an open mind.
increased team utility? you mean like her heal which you nerfed and her e which doesnt even cut even to its current ****iness until you have 100ap.

Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought


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Maximum Graves

Member

11-20-2013

Wow I didn't realize you guys were so passionate about this
~~


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Kira Onime

Senior Member

11-20-2013

I'd rather trade some utility for tons more of dmg and some utility.


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Maximum Hexerin

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Lolicon View Post
Btw its takes over 2500ap for a max level sona e to cut even with Jayce's level 1 acceleration gate. Just a thought
.


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Maximum Graves

Member

11-20-2013

I didn't know that ^ :O
~~