Bye Bye Supports

First Riot Post
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Aidin

Senior Member

11-21-2013

It's obvious that Morello has no idea what supports are like with gold. I know exactly what they're like as there's this game mode called ARAM that I've seen quite a few Rioter's play with 600+ games that could tell you what they're like. Janna was exceedingly strong, she did need a nerf. Lulu was a tad strong, but you've over nerfed her to the point where whimsy needs 500 AP to be weaker than it was before. Nami didn't need any changing. At all. But they've all gotten nerfs. And the worst part about it is, you've taken away two very fun builds to play, AP Janna, and Machine gun lulu. You might be able to get away with an AP attack speed lulu build, so maybe not all is lost, but what you're doing to supports is disgusting. They are now forced into one role to build one stat. What if I wanted to build tank items? What if I wanna build an aegis or a randuin's instead of needing to build 200+ AP to reach the strength I was at previously? Honestly, you clearly have no idea what you're doing. How about you let supports reign for a bit with the extra gold instead of nerfing them into the ground so that they can slow more. Why the hell would I need more slow? There's an item I can get that gives me a 50% aoe slow. If I really want slowing that bad, I'll get that. I'd rather be able to kill secure a target. I mean, you're buffing exhaust and giving up a better slow item. In what world do you think these supports want more slowing? And the minimal scaling to sacrifice any variety you have with the champion? You should honestly quit your job. You suck at it and you're bringing the game down. Especially since these are summoner's rift exclusive changes. You know what you're doing to 3's? You guys attempted to balance the map and now you're making these huge changes which are centered around summoner's. Just **** on all your other players. Good job destroying your game. I hope you crash and burn soon. After four years I've finally decided I'm going to play/fund games where the developers aren't complete **** heads. You disgust me.


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Stampede EU

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We did this originally and it was crazyland. These nerfs after the best stab after 3 months of internal testing.
You know what else was preemptively nerfed because of your assumed "crazyland" back in pre-season 3? Sword of the Divine and Mercurial Scimitar. You know, those items that no one ever builds?


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Ramachese

Senior Member

11-21-2013

I have never understood GD when it comes to pre-season changes. This same exact thing happens (albeit focused on differing subjects) every year.

The entire point of preseason is to change things up then to test those changes and tune them until they work. Last year we had the problems of Black Cleavers etc. As preseason moved forward these issues got addressed and balanced. Why do you believe that will not happen this year.

In addition, declaring the sky is falling with only a day of play is hardly a realistic reaction to change. It will take a good week as people alter play styles and optimize build paths before anyone can realistically have useful input.

Finally, making supports mages is a horrible idea. Supports are not mages - they fill a different role. The key is to make sure their value in that role is sufficient that the role is as valuable as that of a mage. I personally believe that the AP scaling that supports have now will see a buff as preseason moves forward.

Too many people complain in GD just to complain. They really do not consider what they are saying. That needs to stop.


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Sharkb8

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidin View Post
It's obvious that Morello has no idea what supports are like with gold. I know exactly what they're like as there's this game mode called ARAM that I've seen quite a few Rioter's play with 600+ games that could tell you what they're like. Janna was exceedingly strong, she did need a nerf. Lulu was a tad strong, but you've over nerfed her to the point where whimsy needs 500 AP to be weaker than it was before. Nami didn't need any changing. At all. But they've all gotten nerfs. And the worst part about it is, you've taken away two very fun builds to play, AP Janna, and Machine gun lulu. You might be able to get away with an AP attack speed lulu build, so maybe not all is lost, but what you're doing to supports is disgusting. They are now forced into one role to build one stat. What if I wanted to build tank items? What if I wanna build an aegis or a randuin's instead of needing to build 200+ AP to reach the strength I was at previously? Honestly, you clearly have no idea what you're doing. How about you let supports reign for a bit with the extra gold instead of nerfing them into the ground so that they can slow more. Why the hell would I need more slow? There's an item I can get that gives me a 50% aoe slow. If I really want slowing that bad, I'll get that. I'd rather be able to kill secure a target. I mean, you're buffing exhaust and giving up a better slow item. In what world do you think these supports want more slowing? And the minimal scaling to sacrifice any variety you have with the champion? You should honestly quit your job. You suck at it and you're bringing the game down. Especially since these are summoner's rift exclusive changes. You know what you're doing to 3's? You guys attempted to balance the map and now you're making these huge changes which are centered around summoner's. Just **** on all your other players. Good job destroying your game. I hope you crash and burn soon. After four years I've finally decided I'm going to play/fund games where the developers aren't complete **** heads. You disgust me.

Happy to see this guy go~


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LookinForFortuna

Junior Member

11-21-2013

I Honestly think our objection to these support changes isn't due to our love of the support role itself, otherwise we would be welcoming the viability and strength of Annie support and etc. No I think what is fueling the protest is how our favorite champs who carried us out from bronze and silver are being marginalized and getting the short end of the stick. While we love playing Janna support and landing that great Thresh hook, or spamming e to keep our adc's alive it is in the end our love of the champion that keeps us playing that role.

And that's the biggest problem with the upcoming changes. We WANT to see Taric outrageously become a viable top laner, we WANT to see more of Alex Ich bursting down Reginald as AP Janna, and We WANT to see Lulu top and mid being played competitively. To see them being forced into the support role and nothing but the support role instead of expanding on their options to explore new lanes is quiet the opposite in which you want to head I believe, both from a player perspective and a design perspective.


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Red Ryu

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fooly or Cooly View Post
As a game designer, have you wondered why soraka wasnt taken mid? Or perhaps why taric isnt taken top lane, with the exception of that one fabulous week, fabulous...? In addition, are you ignoring that zyra, Lux, Nidalee, annie, and fid are now among the most picked champions to support bot lane? The reasoning behind this is undoubtedly that their scaling is higher, and they bring just as much utility, if not more in some cases. Randomly nerfing the true support champions when they were already in a bad place, despite the "buffs" to their utility, is just bad game design. That is why people are angry. Simply put, giving the support role more gold generation does nothing when you destroy the value of that gold by nerfing their overall ratios. There is no reason to take janna bot over a cho'gath, when cho can do so much more with the gold income than janna.
This a troll post?

Janna brings a lot if stuff chogath can't even remotely do.

AoE knock up that has a timer on it and a a 3 sec AoE silence vs a in line potentially instant knock up, slow, free AoE Movespeed, a shield with free AD and and AoE knock back with a heal.

Yeah, cho is so superior to that. /sarcasm.


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Red Ryu

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampede EU View Post
You know what else was preemptively nerfed because of your assumed "crazyland" back in pre-season 3? Sword of the Divine and Mercurial Scimitar. You know, those items that no one ever builds?
Uhh Mercurial Scimitar is built.

You're correct with SotD though.


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bunies

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
When Lulu and Janna could lane and get gold she pushed Annie out of mid lane - these characters have gone insane with normal gold multiple times when allowed to solo lane. Now we COULD see a world where one of these characters can solo and we won't have to gut it - one definite advantage.

These characters should be about SUPPORT. If they're about damage, they're not support at all - they're mages.
now your just pulling **** out of your ass morello, ap mid janna was never a ****ing terror, it never did ****. Ap lulu only had the ability to **** up ryze then do nothing


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
If you want to do big damage, then I actually don't understand why you are playing a support character.
Because you like the champion. Yesterday in another thread I was talking about the concept of a paladin. That could be done a ton of ways. You've got the tank with self heals. The utility fighter/bruiser. And you've got a melee champ that is mixed physical and magical damage.

Now let's say Riot releases 3 paladin champs at the same time, one for each vision of how a paladin can be played out. The one with the right kit for your role might not be your favorite of the 3.

Plus you are forgetting something important: support is the role people get forced into most often. They don't want to be there. They want to be blowing **** up. So they want to get fed and turn into a second mid or a second bruiser and get kills. You've made a game where someone has to play support whether they want to or not. That's why they are playing a support character.


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Stampede EU

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Ryu View Post
Uhh Mercurial Scimitar is built.

You're correct with SotD though.
Oh please. Scimitar is exclusively a "I have too much gold, nothing else left to build and QSS in my inventory already" item. And QSS itself is already a highly situational pick when there's likes of GA and Banshees around.