Bye Bye Supports

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Ant

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Senior Recruiter

11-20-2013

How exactly are supports "nerfed" now? Because they can now deal damage and feel worthwhile, contributing to teamfights with more than just a pop of the Shurelya's, Locket and throwing down some CC? Instead of buying literally nothing else but wards/Oracle's all game? Yeah, that's not stale at all.

Please, this thread is a joke. Why it has so many upvotes is beyond me.


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Silentcoyote

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman1317 View Post
I remember threads complaining about how strong cleaver was last year before it hit live servers and Riot claims they 'play tested' that
GD has a ****ty track record is all. Every week you all jump on a band wagon about this champion or that champion being game breakingly OP. I've learned that if I take the opposite position. 9 times out of 10 I'm right.


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Hextech Kyubey

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentcoyote View Post
A fair point, but she will still be under utilized since she will have to be denied farm. A mid annie would be much more effective.
Also I think that's your choice as players to play Annie, not Riots.
So the argument becomes.
"Curse you Riot we prefer to play Annie over actual supports"
If people really like these champs they will play them no matter what.
the point is that sup annie will now have gold. probably not as much as a mid annie but being able to get 300+ ap in the support position means that she is going to hit like a truck anyway without losing anything in the process. on the other hand a traditional support like sona has once again had her damage nerfed in exchange for some extra utility whose significance at this point in time is questionable at best


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stealthfox94

Senior Member

11-20-2013

36 upvotes wtf, people will hate on anything and everything Riot does I swear.


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Rivini

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxlon View Post
...uhhhhhhhhh...





Morello? Do you have short-term memory loss or something? LMFAO.
Also Lulu's diminishing slow on Q, but I think Morello meant to say he doesn't think stun (and similar hard CC) durations should scale on AP.


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentcoyote View Post
Seeing as Riot has play tested this stuff....
Do you think they see threads like this and sit back and laugh?
"Look at GD squirm. They are going to be so embarassed when the patch hits, and it works exactly the way we said."
That's what I would do.
They supposedly playtested the beginning of Season 3 also.

What we got was the Black Cleaver stacking meta -> Warmog's meta -> Runic Bulwark meta -> Blue Ezreal meta -> Botrk meta -> Triforce meta, and whatever else was inbetween.

Supports are getting more gold, but everything else that can stand to go bot lane scale better with gold. Some supports might survive off a few tricks (eg. any support that can shield + fotm + locket for a huge shield) but it's really looking like non-traditional supports (and Leona) are just going to take over.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

11-20-2013

the best solution, as I see it, would be to actually nerf utility on AP mids such that they can't double as supports.

plus, y'know, I find it hard to believe that people need spammable stuns/snares/whatever in addition to ridiculous damage output.

...

hell if anyone will agree to that, though, gotta buff the supports instead >.>


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Hidden Dragon

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Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PureQuestion View Post
100 AP?! WHAT AN UNREASONABLE NUMBER TO OBTAIN. That's like, 2000 whole gold! How absurd!
That's 2000 gold just to get back to the power level they are at NOW. In the meanwhile, that Annie or Fiddlesticks with 2000 gold will be doing 3x your damage AND still have better CC than you.

Stop being a ********** and do balance outside of a vaccuum. It's not just supports getting gold. It's ANYONE THAT SUPPORTS getting gold.


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HeyLPG

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Let me speak to this a little;

In the initial reveal, we were talking about the new gold flow for supports - more gold, items and general "agency" being something long overdue for Support characters (in this context, Soraka, Sona, Lulu, Taric, Janna and Nami) who have been overworked and underfed despite actual impact or performance.

We now have a world of characters who have been only balanced to have no gold now having quite a bit of gold! This comes with a few truths:

1) The old support balance base lines no longer are balanced and valid, anymore than if we increased Marksmen, Fighter or Mage gold by the same amount would be.

2) Supports have been previously defined as "characters who function well with no gold." Now that's no longer the case, overtuned/undertuned mages (if we'd not made changes) is a bad identity. By introducing support scaling, supports become MORE supportive through gold - either through acquisition of active items or AP scaling on utility. This is all done specifically to not have AP Mages and Supports fight each other in a raw numbers perspective, and instead provide supports with scaling that fits their role of helping people and working with their team.

3) Looking at these changes, seeing "NERFS" as the takeaway is...well, I don't know how to put it....insane. One of the patch notes could be "increased income by 3000-6000 gold per game". We actually were very conservative on these champion changes in an effort to protect supports from obsoletion (and will react aggressively if that becomes the case in practice).

A glance at the patch notes can read like a nerf, if you ignore the context or associated changes. AP Mids may have additional viability bottom lane, though our changes are specifically to bulwark against that.

Support needed satisfaction, a more fleshed-out identity of "helper," and a place in the game that's real and valid. That's the entire premise of the preseason support changes.

EDIT: Unreasonable rage downvotes, or real thing that you guys disagree with?

I can't wait for you to tell us how it feels to be wrong.


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxlon View Post
...uhhhhhhhhh...





Morello? Do you have short-term memory loss or something? LMFAO.
He very clearly meant duration.