Bye Bye Supports

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Silentcoyote

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by A5taroth View Post
cept support annie can now do both thanks to these changes
A fair point, but she will still be under utilized since she will have to be denied farm. A mid annie would be much more effective.
Also I think that's your choice as players to play Annie, not Riots.
So the argument becomes.
"Curse you Riot we prefer to play Annie over actual supports"
If people really like these champs they will play them no matter what.


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Purodyuusaa

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
snip
No ass-kissing intended, but I would rather wait to see how these changes actually effect gameplay before I complain Morello.

If it's for the worse, then I, and quite a few others, will probably raise legitimate concerns about it. Truth be told, I personally haven't seen how any of this actually works yet (I've only read about it) and it might be true for the mass amount of downvotes you've acquired.


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by EYO TEETO View Post
Okay, I'll bite. Current passive gold gain is about 16 gold every 10 seconds. Going through this for the CURRENT patch. Lets say I use GP10 quints and the gp10 mastery. That bumps me up to 21 gold/10 seconds.

The most CONSERVATIVE cost for AP is about 2k for 100 ap, taken from just buying amplifying tomes. (least gold effective way) so, how long will it take to get 2k gold? Not accounting for occasional CS or assists or buying a gp10 item, it would take about 15 minutes. This is in the old, gold-starved meta. In the new patch, we can estimate that supports will gain an additional 5500 gold per 40 minute game. Extrapolating here, we can estimate a ROUGH passive gold gain for the whole 40 minute period. it adds an additional ~2.3 gold every SECOND. That's more than doubling the current gold gain. Given my previous logic, we can say that the support could feasibly get 100 ap by 10 minutes, WITHOUT taking into account gold generation items.
So: where is your money for wards, and what the hell do you do for 10 minutes while you're stacking AP and Annie is pelting you with fireballs?


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentcoyote View Post
A fair point, but she will still be under utilized since she will have to be denied farm. A mid annie would be much more effective.
Also I think that's your choice as players to play Annie, not Riots.
So the argument becomes.
"Curse you Riot we prefer to play Annie over actual supports"
If people really like these champs they will play them no matter what.
That's really terrible logic.


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Rivini

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Tanks do awful damage, but have strong bases.
Many tanks, if not all, have high AP ratios, some even with 1:1 scaling. Building AP means they have the capability to deal massive damage without losing any innate tankiness (Cho'Gath with extra health, Malphite with extra armor and his passive, etc). Granted they require getting closer to the target than typical mages do for the most part, but it doesn't dismiss the fact that they're "allowed" to be damage dealers if the summoner wants it, simply because the ratios are there.

Why do tanks have such high ratios when they don't need them to apply their disruptive and peeling utility, as well as obtain tankiness (mainly)?

Supports don't need damage to use their utility, right?

I just blew your mind, didn't I?


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WindLord7070

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Don't want to scale CC with AP at all. Might be tough for a couple characters (though they likely just scale better on HP/CDR).
im not really good on the numbers but im jsut wondering is the amount of ap that supports are actully able to get (the gold item 50ap +death cap and one other item) going to make there utility actully better? or are we going to need to build like a mage to get the same utility as before?


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Not Nautilus

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Plainview View Post
So: where is your money for wards, and what the hell do you do for 10 minutes while you're stacking AP and Annie is pelting you with fireballs?
1 min ward from adc, jungle, support hue.


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Deathnor

Senior Member

11-20-2013

thanks for taking the time to post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I can understand that, but I don't know how else to respond to her other than saying she's been getting a ton of use and has consistently the highest support winrate at 56%. So constant nerfs, but seems like we've been pretty kind to her overall.
of course shes been in a good place. its the smallest pool of champions where about half of what we see are utility mages playing instead of the support champs. i feel confident in saying hlaf the support pool are not viable at this point. not a lot of competition for her to work to get to that point.


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Interpolantics

Junior Member

11-20-2013

Morello,

Why can't you understand the main problem that most people are *****ing about? I don't think anyone cares about your nerfs to the traditional supports itself, its the fact that you made it so the support POSITION now gets thousands of more gold for essentially existing in the lane.

Even if you think traditional supports were very OP with the new changes for S4, you should have left them alone. I doubt you tested even half of all the new cheesy compositions that will take place with these changes. Double Bruiser/ADC/APC bot? How can you even begin to balance the traditional supports without knowing what the other 100 champions are going to do?


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Not Nautilus

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathnor View Post
thanks for taking the time to post.

of course shes been in a good place. its the smallest pool of champions where about half of what we see are utility mages playing instead of the support champs. i feel confident in saying hlaf the support pool are not viable at this point. not a lot of competition for her to work to get to that point.
alistar, soraka,