Bye Bye Supports

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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Don't want to scale CC with AP at all. Might be tough for a couple characters (though they likely just scale better on HP/CDR).
But I want to use Terrify and then recall in front of them riot pls


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NightFire666

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Let me speak to this a little;

In the initial reveal, we were talking about the new gold flow for supports - more gold, items and general "agency" being something long overdue for Support characters (in this context, Soraka, Sona, Lulu, Taric, Janna and Nami) who have been overworked and underfed despite actual impact or performance.

We now have a world of characters who have been only balanced to have no gold now having quite a bit of gold! This comes with a few truths:

1) The old support balance base lines no longer are balanced and valid, anymore than if we increased Marksmen, Fighter or Mage gold by the same amount would be.

2) Supports have been previously defined as "characters who function well with no gold." Now that's no longer the case, overtuned/undertuned mages (if we'd not made changes) is a bad identity. By introducing support scaling, supports become MORE supportive through gold - either through acquisition of active items or AP scaling on utility. This is all done specifically to not have AP Mages and Supports fight each other in a raw numbers perspective, and instead provide supports with scaling that fits their role of helping people and working with their team.

3) Looking at these changes, seeing "NERFS" as the takeaway is...well, I don't know how to put it....insane. One of the patch notes could be "increased income by 3000-6000 gold per game". We actually were very conservative on these champion changes in an effort to protect supports from obsoletion (and will react aggressively if that becomes the case in practice).

A glance at the patch notes can read like a nerf, if you ignore the context or associated changes. AP Mids may have additional viability bottom lane, though our changes are specifically to bulwark against that.

Support needed satisfaction, a more fleshed-out identity of "helper," and a place in the game that's real and valid. That's the entire premise of the preseason support changes.

EDIT: Unreasonable rage downvotes, or real thing that you guys disagree with?

You don't get it do you. It doesn't matter if they have 15000 gold, if everything they get is ****. If they can't stand during team fights, or become a piece of live bait to take away from the ADC, well what CAN they do? It seems now more then ever they are just gonna be CC slaves with no viable forms of damage.

Thank you for killing the support role. Do APC next, I'm curious as to how you'll kill them off.




BTW: I told you so I told you so I told you told you told you so!

*Does the I told you so dance*


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Yangpoo

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Pidgeon-holing, as is the team builder.

You can't even sneak in some farm now if you buy the GP+5 items. You killed one minion for your ADC? Naughty!!!! No GP5 for you.


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Cant Blind This

Senior Member

11-20-2013

morlolo pls hav mi bebyes


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Ethlinlol

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
The role of "Support" is probably going to turn into a utility mage or offtank spot.
After the mayhem that has been going on recently, I kind of hope the role officially becomes that.


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EYO TEETO

Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Likely so on Thresh - I'm not confident he's right either. Though I am pretty sure he'll still be good :P
Wow - I can't believe people are actually ANGRY about these preseason changes. As a support main, I am extremely excited, and I'm counting down the days until the preseason patch is live.

I really think this patch will make supporting a lot more fun. I think individual champion balance is irrevelevant to this conversation - It's about support as a role. There may be one or two supports that may not be strong anymore, but there's no way we'll know until it's live.

And as far as supports getting their AP ratios nerfed - Why are people complaining at ALL about this? Have you guys played support this season? 95% of the games that I played, I only built a sightstone, shurelya's, and boots. Notice my point? I didn't even build ANY AP at all. With the new gold income, now we actually have freedom to be more than just ward bots. We're actually FORCED to be more than ward bots, thanks to the ward cap. With the new gold, we now actually have the freedom to buy AP, AD, tank items, whatever we want.

Yes, the AP ratios have been nerfed, but the fact that we can actually AFFORD to buy AP far outweighs the fact that the ratios were nerfed.

Also - This patch will greatly increase variety inside of the support role. Since the role will now be getting a lot more gold, it will technically be viable to take ANY champ bot lane. It's hard to say what new champions will shine - but with no doubt, this patch will make for a more dynamic, interesting, and (dare I say it?) FUN support experience.


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Silentcoyote

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurosurgeonwolf View Post
AP mids are now going to replace these nerfed pieces of junk. What support even rushes AP instead of sightstone or a support item? And they scale SOOOOOO BADLY.

This is a horrific patch for supports.

Yeah, lets make the SINGLE MOST UNAPPEALING ROLE even more unappealing? ARE YOU JOKING ME?

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/node/8667
You seem to forget they are getting an increased gold flow. They can get their stuff much faster now.


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Hextech Kyubey

Senior Member

11-20-2013

In my opinion, I don't feel threatening as a support. I don't like being looked at as food for the enemy jungler when I go to ward even when we are 10k gold ahead. no amount of utility will stop that udyr/kassadin/kha'zix/whoever from chasing me until either a: I die, b: I manage to outrun them, or c: my team who has damage comes to help me. these new changes will admittedly help this situation, but what If I'm playing support annie in S4 instead? I can turn around and nuke that sucker, while if I'm playing lulu I just get better at running away. as much as I love lulu I would take the ability to do damage any day. why? because I LIKE to feel threatening


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Shadow Merchant

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Don't want to scale CC with AP at all. Might be tough for a couple characters (though they likely just scale better on HP/CDR).
Appreciate you coming in and tanking for Riot Morello. Cheers! =]


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imweasel09

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Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Don't want to scale CC with AP at all. Might be tough for a couple characters (though they likely just scale better on HP/CDR).
So uh, then what are you going to do about alistar? He doesn't exactly need a ton of items to do what he does.