Bye Bye Supports

First Riot Post
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Xonra

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurosurgeonwolf View Post
Can't take criticism?

This patch is smashing the single most avoided and hated role in LOL. Absolutely hindering it and making it even LESS appealing- and that was barely possible.

This is ridiculous!
Riot Logic: You don't like playing support? Well we are nerfing all the supports so you can just play an AP Mid instead. That fixes it right?


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UgIierBetty

Senior Member

11-20-2013

I just don't get it though...


one of the main reasons NOT to run someone like Orianna support is because she's better off building AP...


now the "support" will get as much gold as they need: i.e. with lots of gold someone like Orianna will be an AP carry late-game whereas Sona will be the same as always because of the abysmal scaling


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BadgerDrool

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Senior Member

11-20-2013

As someone that has basically played ARAM all of Season 3...I'm happy to see some AP nerfs for the lot of them. Support OP. I realize most people don't recognize how big of an impact they are having in their ARAM games but Soraka, Sona, Nami...all champions I hate to see on the other side of the field.

What's the difference between Howling Abyss and Summoners Rift? Howling has more normalized XP and Gold flow. All 5 champions get good XP and gold flow without a great need of last hits. Most XP comes off kills and there's so much competition for creeps it can be hard to farm.

Yet that difference is also why this is a relevant point. Summoners Rift is not just putting Gold in the hands of support but also XP. The total changes involve a lot of effort to specifically allow a champion behind in XP to catch up with the rest of the team. The gold flow changes allow all 5 roles to have reasonable gold flow...this is on top of assist gold allowing both bot laners to snowball at the same time more effectively.


Now, at mid game, instead of a level 12 Soraka facing Level 16 opponents and teammates with only a sightstone and oracles...we have a Soraka that will also be level 16 with sightstone and 4k+ worth of items....Know what that gold could be? A Rylias Crystal Scepter (which is insane on Soraka), and some basic arm/mr items. Maybe a tear instead?

I can think of numerous ways to build support champions from ARAM that do not rely on Deathcap oriented builds that are effective in team fights.


TLDR: You guys haven't spent enough time on ARAM to appreciate how scary itemized support are. Don't panic. Wait and see what it's like post patch.


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Xonra

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCNightwolf View Post
you do realize they test this sort of thing extensively before release right?

Not long ago everyone on this site was calling sivir (after her rework completely useless) and now she has a winrate of what like 60% or something close to that.
They also tested League of Warmogs, and League of assassins, and League of Black Cleaver <_< The list goes on and on and on.


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HeyLPG

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Because that's unnecessary - other classes (mages, tanks) bring utility too. One could argue 3 second Fear is probably silly in its own right, though.
Morello, you are obviously making supports worse off. Taric and Soraka were already considered non-viable due to your love for nerfing any kind of sustain in your game, being dubbed as a toxic stat. Supports are now entirely item dependent since you nerfed the healing amount and the ratios and to compensate you gave us crappy utility scaling to justify your over sensational season 4 changes.

I mean lord. This is almost as uninspiring as the new jungle camp. It's so random and out of place.

These changes feel random and out of place. Why defect weak support champions even further? There's no reason at all. Actually no there is a reason, you didn't think it entirely through. You haven't tested it enough. Why go with these changes if they're simply nothing more than half-baked ideas?

You realize this effects the overall quality of the game? Not to mention the competitive Esports scene which is obviously more important to Riot than the player-base at large.

Pathetic. Spend another year on the drawing board and gives us our holiday maps to you hacks.


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tailsmph

Senior Member

11-20-2013

I'd like to pop in and say that Taric has now been pigeonholed into support, making him essentially unplayable on anything but botlane SR, and looking at these changes, it looks like he got further nerfed on SR too

RIP AP Nuke Bruiser Taric on Treeline and Dominion, Many good times were had, many kills were taken, many more kills were stolen by dazzle

How ****in unfabulous


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YGY818

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Because that's unnecessary - other classes (mages, tanks) bring utility too. One could argue 3 second Fear is probably silly in its own right, though.
I agree, however I'd like if you can emphasize supreme utility for the support class.

The issue is other non-supports have equal CC capabilities.

Mages/Tanks/Annie/Fiddle should still strongly fear the support CC capability.


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Morello

Lead Designer

11-20-2013
9 of 19 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aakesh View Post
Supports are losing so much in order to receive something they should have been getting since the beginning of this game. They are getting punished for because they can actually buy items.

And this is what annoys me. There are 5 people on the team. ALL of the roles do damage and change the game. Supports are the only type of character that forsakes everything, and places all trust in everyone else. Why can't the support do damage like everyone else? Don't tell me utility, look at Orianna. This is why Zyra was nerfed, and Annie is gonna get hit too.

Everyone should be able to change the game in their own way and carry in their own way.

Also, why are supports being locked into one role now? They can't do anything else now. They made the entire experience worse for them and other supports for the sake of having welfare.
This is the view I think is coloring analysis here - it's the "we've been in a bad space so long, you can't make any, non-power-increase changes." This is a ridiculous notion.

Tanks do awful damage, but have strong bases. They have utility and impact the game, scaling on durability and CDR. At worst, supports can do that (we see those builds on Dominion when they get gold, typically). We wanted to enhance build paths a bit though.

If you want to do big damage, then I actually don't understand why you are playing a support character.


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Chun Li

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Honestly, I just hope what you did to Sona doesn't nerf her too much.

The constant nerfs to her is upsetting.

Also.. Just a question.. Why keep the heal if you're just going to constantly nerf it? Not a QQ moment, but I'm genuenly (I think I misspelled that) curious. Why constantly nerf it?


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TwerkItTaric

Member

11-20-2013

A possible solution to make Supports more attractive would be to also have the duration of Crowd Control Supports have to scale off AP. This would be something fairly small like +0.1 or even +0.05 Seconds for every say, 50 AP so you don't end up sitting in a Nami Bubble for 3 seconds. Thoughts?