What items would you guys like to see? (With Rules)

First Riot Post
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EdgarAlanPWN88

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Senior Member

12-19-2010

I have several different areas that are lacking items.

I think that there should be another item to build out of Giant's Belt. Currently Giant's belt builds into AP, AD, HP/5, and AR. All of these items gives great HP from the Giant's Belt, strong stats in the other area, and a good passive. The one item area that is lacking is Giant's Belt + Magic Resistance. This would provide a strong item for tanks going up against any team composition, since DFG, MBR and tank abilities all do magic damage. This item would specifically help against non-physical DPS teams, since it would counter tanks and mages.

Negatron Cloak (740g) + Giant's Belt (1110g) +850g = Item
55 MR
500 HP
Unique Passive: ??? (Reduces incoming damage by 2%, gives 15% CC Reduction?)

This item gives a respectable level of MR while not making it overly high compared to the Negatron Cloak. It also gives a comparable amount of HP increase as the other items built from Giant's Belt. The passive is something that I am unsure about. I put the cost of the item at a level comparable to the other Giant's belt items, but did not have any great ideas for the passive. This item fills the gap I mentioned by only providing health and MR, two stats that are not found in high levels on any one item together alone. It is also made from Giant's Belt, which helps tanks purchase the components more easily, since purchasing a Catalyst is often difficult for tanks.


As previously stated, there arent any "Pure" Magic Resist items, like Warmog's for HP and Thornmail for Armor. This is an item that I am basing off of Thornmail, since it would be the most apt counterpart. I envision it filling the same role as Thornmail, as an item that is only for facing a strong Magic based team that can be quickly built and is built solely from MR components.

Negatron cloak (740g) + Null-Magic Mantel (400g) + 860g = Item
100 Magic Resistance
Unique Passive: Reflects 20% of Magic Damage back to the source as Physical Damage

I think this item is fairly balanced because the item efficiency is exactly the same when compared to Thornmail, (Using Cloth Armor and Null-Magic Mantel as the base values for AR and MR), as well as the fact that the damage reflected is only 20%, and casters have higher base Armor than they do MR, which would compensate for the bursty nature of their damage. This item would fill the need for an item with very high levels of MR, at a low cost, which is built from only MR items. This item would allow tanks to face a pure caster team more easily early game in the same way they can face physical teams with Thornmail.


There is also one item that DPS has that casters are missing, The Bloodthirster. This is a very strong DPS item, but one that has risk associated with it. Casters do not have the same risk/reward item, and not one that is providing strong attributes for casters. (Excluding snowball items)

Needlessly Large Rod (1600g) + 1600g = The Soulthirster (3200g)
112 AP
6.5% CDR
Passive: After 40 kills The Soulthrister is engorged and has 188 AP and 11% CDR. All bonus stats are lost upon death

I know the numbers are strange, but I was trying to make this item exactly equally efficient to the Bloodthirster, while giving it caster stats. This items combines two very necessary caster stats into a very strong item that gives equal stats, (efficiency wise), to the Bloodthirster. It also carries the same risk/reward as Bloodthirster.


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Wyl

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Senior Member

12-19-2010

We need a dodge item!


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Gamecmdr

Senior Member

12-19-2010

1) . Problem, sustained damage casters have no way to deal with beefy champs akin to the intent of madreds bloodrazors, DFG is bursty and not super great against beefies anyway, Void staff isnt catered to sustained.

2) 1600 gold Rod + 1250ish gold Feindish codex 500 gold combines cost
Stats- 110 Ability power, 7 mana regen per 5, 15 percent CDR Unique active (for the next X seconds or X spells, each will do a percent of the opponets max health in addition to normal damage, 1/3rd effect for AOE).

3) This gives Sustained casters (IE Karthus and freinds) the ability to imporve sustained against beefy, while being expensive as to not be itemized for easily unless you specificly want it, and no bonus stats. But no more does the mundo who stacks health and buys visage laugh in your face as you become useless.


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

12-19-2010

CC + Burst causes melee DPS to be inferior to their Tanky DPS cousins. It also happens there is a very limited list of high MR items, they are all incredibly expensive, and none of them synergize highly with physical/melee DPS.

Dervish
Null-Magic Mantle (400g)
Null-Magic Mantle (400g)
Zeal (1195g)
Combine cost 505g
Total Cost 2500g

55 MR
25% IAS
12% Critical Strike
10% Move Speed
Unique Active: Reduces the duration of all CC effects by 50% for 5 seconds. 60 second cooldown.

This item would be most useful for champs like Yi or Trynd whose capacity to perform their intended role is greatly inhibited in upper Elo ranges by the typical high CC team setup. It also allows for glass cannon DPS to improve their resilience to burst casters without taking a complete detour from the stats needed to do their job, while at the same time the stats provided are significantly more useful to a glass cannon DPS, than to a tanky DPS who would likely sill prefer BV or FoN.


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ARESro

Junior Member

12-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by amadard View Post
There is also one item that DPS has that casters are missing, The Bloodthirster. This is a very strong DPS item, but one that has risk associated with it. Casters do not have the same risk/reward item, and not one that is providing strong attributes for casters. (Excluding snowball items)

Needlessly Large Rod (1600g) + 1600g = The Soulthirster (3200g)
112 AP
6.5% CDR
Passive: After 40 kills The Soulthrister is engorged and has 188 AP and 11% CDR. All bonus stats are lost upon death

I know the numbers are strange, but I was trying to make this item exactly equally efficient to the Bloodthirster, while giving it caster stats. This items combines two very necessary caster stats into a very strong item that gives equal stats, (efficiency wise), to the Bloodthirster. It also carries the same risk/reward as Bloodthirster.
In fact this is an idea I though about too. Indeed this item is needed. But also I may add im not sure but archangel staff could be this kind of item as well.
again, solthirster is a must.


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

12-19-2010

The ability of tanks to absorb burst and then deal grave damage to casters whose spells are not on Cooldown places too much emphasis on ranged physical DPS and on tanky DPS. Also, HP itemization for pure AP champs is very limited, and overall survivability is a serious issue for many casters with long CD spells.

Visage of the Void
Catalyst the Protector (1325g)
Haunting Guise (1485g)
Combine cost 690g
Total cost 3500g

600 HP
400 Mana
30 AP
20 Spell Pen
Unique Passive: On spellcast, place a debuff on the target that reduces MR by 5 for 10 seconds, stacks up to 10x. At full stacks, the target takes 1% of max HP as True Damage on receiving any magic damage. (Stacks are only gained/refreshed by the holder of the Visage.) Unique Active: Inflict target with a full 10x stack of the Void Torment debuff. Cooldown 120 seconds.

Due to the base stats on the item, it fulfills a specific niche, where the enemy team is mostly comprised of meaty champions that counter burst casters so well. It also provides a situational counterpart to the Bloodrazors, giving casters a method of fighting against champions who focus purely on increasing their EHP, and relying on their sustained damage to take advantage of the relative fragility of burst casters, while not providing compelling stats for champions and/or situations that the item is not intended for.


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

12-19-2010

Hybrid damage dealers have significant problems gaining proper levels of penetration while still accumulating all of the stats that are useful to them, since generally speaking, -all- stats are useful for them. Last Whisper and Void Staff are awkward, as LW is most useful for "Auto Attack Hybrids", and VS is more useful for "Ability Damage Hybrids", which leaves the Flat Pen items which tend to be lower tier, and can clog up the inventory.

Grimacing Menpo
Haunting Guise (1485g)
The Brutalizer (1337g)
Combine cost 578g
Total cost 3400g

250 HP
30 AP
35 AD
Unique Passive: Reduces Ability Cooldowns by 12%, and +25 Armor Penetration, and +30 Magic Penetration.

This item allows hybrid champions a method to gain a useful but reasonable amount of penetration for both MR and Armor without sacrificing excessive item slots to get a moderate boost to many useful stats. At the same time, by design it is not able to compete with items such as Rylai's or Gunblade as an initial rush item, but allows a player to choose to grab an early Brutalizer or Guise if necessary before their core items, and not be stuck with low tier item for the rest of the game (or gold losses through selling). This item would work best on champs like Akali and Teemo whose hybrid built damage is more balanced than other hybrids.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

12-19-2010
2 of 17 Riot Posts

A couple notes, now that the thread is going:

1. Parallel structure is, in itself, not a sufficient reason for creating an item. For example, simply because there is a pure armor item and we have no pure magic resist item, does not mean that is sufficient reason for a pure magic resist item to exist.

Physical damage and magical damage scale very differently and are applied very differently. This is why Heart of Gold can exist, but a theoretical HP/MR Heart of Silver cannot, due to the nature of the damage it is addressing.

2. Caster Scaling vs. Magic Resist: I think it's interesting that roughly a 1/3rd of the posts are 'Casters can't scale' and the other 1/3rd of the posts are 'I can't defend myself against Casters because of a lack of MR itemization.' This usually means that the problems you guys are stated isn't specific enough to the group of people that it affects.

For example, It'd be helpful to think about which caster you are thinking of (Akali scales wonderfully, for example, whereas Ryze doesn't.) vs. which character you can't build resists on (Master Yi, for example) and tailor the items toward solving the scaling/mr problem for that sub-group of champions.

TL;DR: There are actually sub-groups in casters who scale, and sub-groups in casters who don't scale. Likewise, there are sub-groups in characters who can build sufficient MR and those who can't. Drill down more to the sub-group.

3. It's okay to suggest non-problem centric items, so long as you can identify the champions that would be best suited for them. For example, consider the new Malady. It doesn't exactly solve any problem, but it does synergize well with a select group of champions (Teemo/TF/Bloodrazors) while not being a 'must-get-everytime' item for everyone else.

That said, it's been an interesting read thus far.

4. Regarding Spell Vamp: Consider the amount of damage you can do with your spells early game vs. the amount of damage that you can do with autoattacks early game.

Early Spell Vamp itemization tends to fail in this respect, as having spell vamp with 0 AP is much worse than having life leech with 0 bonus AD.


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EdgarAlanPWN88

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Senior Member

12-19-2010

Xypherous, Thanks for the feedback. I am wondering if you see any one area where an item is missing? (AKA, give us a hit on where you would like us to focus making hypothetical items!) If not, that is ok, because I am having a lot of fun in the thread and actually getting responses from you for hypothetical stuff.

Another area that I feel is missing an item is another Doran's Item. I like to play Mordekaiser, and always take Doran's Shield as his first item, despite sometimes knowing I will only be facing magic dealing champions during laning phase. I take Doran's Shield because of the Health and the HP/5, and have to accept that the Armor will only help against the minions and the occasional auto-attack the enemy Zilean, Anivia, Mordekaiser, or Shen will hit me with. I would like to have a Doran's Shield-esque item, but one that gives MR instead of Armor. (Yeah, I did notice the Parallel Structure, sorry!)

Dorans Anti-Magic barrier: (435g)
120 Health
8 Magic Resistance
8 Health regen/5

Because the cost/benefit ratio for Null-Magic Mantel and Cloth Armor are equal I decided that the MR Doran's item should have equal MR as Armor on Doran's Shield.

This item will give starting players a defensive boost during the laning phase when against casters. I know you said Parallel Structure isnt sufficient for a new item, but in this case I think that such an item will allow an early defensive build against casters, something that is currently lacking in any realistic way. The key aspect of this item, in my mind, is the HP/5 combined with MR in a starting item, the two parts needed for longer laning against a harassing caster.


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Shaella

Senior Member

12-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
For example, It'd be helpful to think about which caster you are thinking of (Akali scales wonderfully, for example, whereas Ryze doesn't.) vs. which character you can't build resists on (Master Yi, for example) and tailor the items toward solving the scaling/mr problem for that sub-group of champions.

TL;DR: There are actually sub-groups in casters who scale, and sub-groups in casters who don't scale. Likewise, there are sub-groups in characters who can build sufficient MR and those who can't. Drill down more to the sub-group.
so does that mean i was doing it right with Lachesis' Rule? Aiming it very specifically at DPS spellspam casters like Ryze?