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Skarner Rework coming to PBE

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PositiveAffxtion

Recruiter

10-18-2013

I don't see how the permaslow was frustrating at all. He has no gap closer aside from flash and he has to charge it once and be in range to get the slow off. So unless the lane was overextended and not warded, he could reach you before you can react but you can still flash or shorten distance to turrets before he gets to you.

Even with this ranged slow, you can get away and survive because skarner is sustained damage so without a permaslow he have less time to do damage. Also, if you get hit by the slow, a stun will stop him which decreases a lot of his damage since he still has to get in range to do damage. And when he gets in range, its not as scary because he just brings damage rather than a permaslow.


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Lorkhaj

Junior Member

10-18-2013

Hmm, the first thing that strikes me looking at these changes is that it looks like Skarner will need all of his abilities leveled to make an impact:
Min points in Q = weak damage = not a threat outside of ult
Min points in W = low movespeed/weak shield = takes longer to catch up and easier to kill/break shield
Min points in E = weak slow = limited stick potential when he does catch up

So he needs Q to threaten, W to survive/catch and E to keep them in range. Does he stop to cast his new E? That is rather detrimental if it is intended to be his new sticking tool and he still relies on autoattacks for his cdr.

Actually, on second thought it’ll probably be everything > E (outside of AP Skarner who is likely pretty much eliminated with the heal removal in any case), the ability to reapply W shield more frequently may allow him to stick well enough until he can build frozen mallet or iceborne gauntlet though I’m not sure of that and he’ll just have a greater reliance on red buff/laner CC early game.

The Q bonus AS looks low, particularly for something that needs to be stacked 3 times. You just buffed Olaf on the PBE because 20% AS at level 1 W didn’t feel potent and Skarner only gets 24% at full stacks max rank. Admittedly, Skarner’s AS boost will have a much higher uptime so it probably works out statistically if you can keep it stacked for an extended period but it does look low when compared to pretty much every other AS steroid in the game (especially with Jinx so fresh in the mind).

Edit: Why the need to eliminate all forms of permaslow from champion kits?

For melee without a gap closer it's nearly a necessity for them to contribute. And, even if it is removed from all champion kits, it still exists through items unless there are some unannounced changes to Frozen Mallet and iceborne gauntlet (to a lesser extent as this is not technically permaslow) in the works.


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Lord Mordor

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Overall as a Skarner player I LOVE the direction the rework is taking him. The 2 concerns I have are the AS numbers on Q stacks, and the narrow skillshot and slow on the E.....all of which are obviously super easy number fixes that can be handled once he goes to the beta

As others have said, him needing to ramp up to his max AS bonus, combined with him losing his ability to 100% stick to his target (prior to players learning to buy IBG anyway) leaves the bonus feeling a bit lackluster. Even if its more power in long duration fights, because the boost is so much smaller it just wont "feel" like much


If the CD on E is unchanged I feel to much of his CC ability will be tied up in a very narrow skillshot that if juked will basically prevent him from doing much in teamfights. Skarner serves 1 of 2 roles in a teamfight...dive the enemy team and drag their Carry into you, or perma-slow the bruisers diving your own carry. While I feel the new E is a great tool for his ganking...its coming at the lose of his teamfight utility


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Y0L0 Y0DA

Junior Member

10-18-2013

Many of the planned changes are not good in their current state.

1. Can no longer get an ASP boost when pushing towers/inhibs/nexus
2. Reducing the effectiveness of ganks pre 6 through making his slow no longer (almost)spammable.
3. You now have to build stacks of ASP after ulting.
4. 24% ASP after three stacks of a lvl 5 Skill (is sad) compared to say Volibear who gets 20% per stack.
5. The old lvl 1 W (shield) gave 30% ASP so these changes also hurt Skarner's passive because even at lvl 5 of the new Q he has less ASP.


Now on the bright side, good QoL changes on the ultimate and the increase on the shield while losing the heal are fair.

My suggestions are to change the ASP on the new Q (Crystal Slash) to work like this,
"passive: grants 10/20/30/40%ASP"

"active: Skarner lashes out with his claws, dealing 25 / 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 (+0.8 per bonus attack damage) physical damage to all nearby enemies)"

My Suggestions for the slow that is now on E (Fracture) works like this,
"Targets hit are slowed by 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s and
the slowing effect is reapplied when hit by Crystal Slash"


these changes will allow skarner to gank pre 6 by sticking to the target, but will still allow enemies to escape if skarner doesn't build CDR for his Q. as well as keep his AOE slow utlity in team fights.

just my thoughts let me know what yall think!


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Arkaeas

Member

10-18-2013

Please No. Now skarner pre6 has absolutly no reason to even attempt to gank, as his slow is about as effective as a varus W getting bumped into, Without a reapplying slow, skarner has lost his identity as a jungler and can't preform without his ult.


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Mestergrog

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
Gammaran:
I dont think the clear will be the problem, Im sure the shield and atack speed will be enough to clear. What i want you to check is:

Dueling with anyone pre-3 or after 3 both with doublebuffs? Skarner needs to not be weak early due to his ganks now REALLY depending on a fast 6. If early junglers with gap closers are able to not only out pressure him, but mess with him in the jungle, i feel not only will his 6 be delayed, but his pressure will be none existent. The current attack speed is really nice to duel anyone and at least keep them off your side of the jungle. The on demand attack speed is really good for skirmishes. I feel from reading this changes he doesnt really have a way to stack quickly on his attack speed, or to lock the target down with the slow after the 2.5 slow.


I think his dueling is better with the change, imo. A constant attack speed buff, even if it's a lower value than the current W attack speed, is more reliable because it can't be removed, especially by a particularly bursty enemy.

About Skarner's ganking, it was always somewhat dependent on a fast 6. Sure, the Q is a permaslow, but a short range permaslow. Pre-6, ganking means running at your target with W on and hitting Q when you get in range, and it was somewhat unreliable unless your target was way out of position. Even post-6 ganking is sort of like that because of the low range on his ult. At least with a 1000-range slow, it will be easier to land your ult on a slowed target. In a nutshell the way I see the difference is: old: Skarner speeds up and runs at target to get in close range to slow/supress, vs. new: Skarner speeds up and runs at slowed target to get in range to supress

Edit: another thing is that his clearing will definitely improve. Skarner's clear times aren't as good as before in S2 because of the shift to more single-target damage, so maxing Q doesn't clear the camp's big monster as fast. With the rework, AoE damage and attack speed are in the same ability. Faster clearing should allow him to level up faster than currently.


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Dylan Parham

Recruiter

10-18-2013

Quote:
Ekanselttar:
Is the slow on Fracture a flat amount or a %?


can this get answered please?


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Sightless66

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
Dylan Parham:
can this get answered please?


It is % like most slows.


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Y0L0 Y0DA

Junior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
Dylan Parham:
can this get answered please?


since it is very similar numbers to the original "Q" then I would assume yes it is a % slow.

(slows all targets hit by 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 % for 2 seconds.) original Q.


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ARAMMidOrFeed

Member

10-18-2013

It sounds pretty good. I miss playing skarner (although I was never a main). I wonder if it might be better to put the movement speed on his Q (but let it keep the 3 stack feature), and attack speed on his W.

When Riot re-introduced phage with the attack speed buff instead of the slow, I think a lot of players realized just how good a consistent movement speed buff is.

Skarner's biggest feature before was his ability to slow his opponents and stick to them. Now that you've moved the slow to something that won't be constant, I was thinking that maybe moving his movement speed buff to something that is would be good.

I THINK it would play out well too. When you run into a lane, you would start with Fracture from the slow. Then if you get onto the target, you can stick onto them with his low cooldown Q to keep your movement speed up.

Along with this, the attack speed buff could be put back on his shield. When the shield breaks, he loses his attack speed. This leaves Skarner open to more counters. If you break his shield, and also his attack speed, that means longer cooldowns on his abilities.


I think my post kind of fell apart because I haven't clearly structured my point.

Main points:

People like Skarner's ability to stick, but hated a constant slow.
-Giving him a constant movement speed buff (putting it on his Q)fixes this, and is a selfish spell that only helps Skarner

Moving his attack speed to W gives the enemy a way to stop his quick refreshing cooldowns (by breaking his shield).

Edit: I haven't tried him yet, and my post is merely based off of speculation. I am looking forward to trying him out and see how he is now though.