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Skarner Rework coming to PBE

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Lagom0rph

Junior Member

10-18-2013

A a sometime top lane skarner, this seems to be making him super generic. I don't really see any reason to play this new kit over a Naut, Udyr, or even Warwick.

The heal on the E was my primary sustain, and the slow on the Q let you stick in a fight.


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Sightless66

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
Baby Ringtail:
How was his E useless? In jungle it was his main source of sustain, and for me who enjoys Skarner top because of his insane duel potential it was the main reason he was so potent at 1v1. While fighting an enemy top laner you would just throw your E at them and as many minions as possible and throw your Q out and it gave you a ridiculous amount of health back.


In the jungle, Skarner players often didn't take the E. Skarner's problem in the jungle isn't health sustain, it's mana sustain, and the E ate up his mana like nothing else. Skarner does not need the E to stay healthy. Additionally, it was absolutely useless for ganking because it made you stand still to cast it, something you can't afford to do when ganking early as Skarner. A second point of the shield tended to help more because it ensured that your movement speed would be less likely to be popped by a stray projectile. Makes ganking significantly more likely to succeed. Also, the shield poinmt works just fine for sustain too, since the extra 45 shield health per level is almost as good as the 60 health you'll get on average from a cast of fracture, while being much less taxing on mana costs.

So, look at it from the point of view of a jungler trying to get the most efficiency from his skill points: You don't need health sustain (if you do, one pot will easily cover it), and you do need to gank (and your ganks rely on getting in close to apply CC). What's useful: a fracture point, or a shield point? Keep asking this question until level 13, and then realize that you haven't put any points into E.

The heal did help lane Skarner more. We'll see how laning scorpion turns out. He may need some help. He can still all-in almost anyone and win, but a lack of sustain will make it hard to fight over the long-term with some opponents.


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Chennasaurus

Junior Member

10-18-2013

Personally, I don't like these changes very much. His Q used to be a unique AoE slow (somewhat supplanted by Frozen Fist) but now his primary tool for keeping opponents within his damage radius is an Olaf-esque skillshot, which may or may not be as spammable as Olaf axes. I like the part where his ultimate is now more reliable and consistent and the better shield, but I still feel his Q spam should allow him to stick to his target (so if the perma-slow is unhealthy, then perhaps a built-in stacking phage effect).

His E still feels rather useless, but also (in a funny way) absolutely necessary in order to gank properly pre-6. This iteration actually loses him damage in ganks because now players are forced to put points in E to stick to enemies, which means less points in either Q or W. His mana issues still seem to be in full force.


TL;DR His Q is now too similar to Hecarim's and his E is too similar to Olaf axes. Doesn't feel too unique anymore, plus he seems to lose some early-mid power. Lategame probably helped though.


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lolrape

Senior Member

10-18-2013

I don't understand this rework whatsoever. While it may look like a buff to someone who doesn't actually play skarner, you took this poor bug and mercilessly stomped him into the ground.

The power of old skarner lay in the fact that he really only had 2 good buttons. Q was really good, R was really good, and his passive and W were decent tools to help his Q and R successfully work. His E was trash but it didn't matter. You needed to max Q and W as quickly as possible anyway, so even if E was good putting points in it probably would not have been.

The Changes

Q
-has no permaslow
-has the attack speed buff
-still needs lots of points to start dealing noticeable damage.
Thoughts: Q now sucks for ganking, but is still required for clearing your jungle. The fact that the attack speed buff is on Q is actually really nice, and is much better at at utilizing your passive than W was, but it in no way makes up for the fact that Q no longer permaslows.

Q went from great to mediocre

W
-has better movement speed
-lost attack speed
-has to ramp up
-got the original cd back
-has a better shield
-has a better ap ratio
W lost the attack speed, but as stated previously the attack speed buff on skarner's kit is now better as a whole. The shield got better, which is also obviously a buff. Unfortunately, a buff to the ap ratio does almost nothing. Skarner has to walk into the enemy team to perform his role, and this doesn't really allow you to itemize more than around ~40 ap. (triforce/frozen fist) In a ganking situation, you get into the lane much quicker as usually people can't pop your shield, but you don't have the permaslow power to back it up. In a team fight situation, your shield should be popped within one second of you casting it as you walk into a team fight, and it is only marginally better than it used to be.

W went from mediocre to decent

E
-doesn't have a terrible mana cost anymore
-doesn't have a terrible heal anymore
-has a slow
-is even narrower
-goes 25% farther
E got some decent buffs, but it still doesn't change the fact that it has a cast time and is quite narrow. It has a slow on it, and this moves skarner's slow from short to long range, but it is so much worse that you can't even call it a buff to his ability to cc. This skill was always trash, but it didn't matter because you just wanted to max your Q and W as quickly as possible anyway. Now it is slightly better, but you actually have to put points in it to have your slow. This takes away from your Q/W, making it not much of a buff

E went from trash to mediocre

R
-was extremely good
-is slightly better/potentially op
If you managed to get onto someone you wanted to ult, you used to get 1. their flash without your ult going on cd, or 2. their body. Now you only can get their body. This is a small buff, but getting someone's flash without your ult going on cd wasn't shabby. The problem with it is still getting close enough to ult someone without getting crushed for it. The real difference between the old ult and this one is the change to skarner's attack speed buff. With the buff to skarner's overall attack speed buff, this thing could come off cd even quicker than it already did. If it makes his ult come off cd faster, it could make skarner almost unbearable to play against during the post-6 laning phase.

R went from great to great/potentially overpowered

So IMO, this rework is complete trash. Skarner went from a fairly fun champion in that he didn't duel or clear the jungle exceptionally well, but he could really get rolling if he got close enough to q/r people during ganks. His scaling would take him to a very solid place if he got this rolling. Now he is just another random mediocre champion that needs all 3 of his buttons to access his full kit, while having an overall weaker kit than he had. And as a huge fan I already had a hard enough time convincing my friends to allow me to bring him to the Rift. This rework completely **** on his uniqueness and just made him another mediocre champion that isn't as good at doing what the top junglers do better right now. If you want him to be ****ty, at least let him keep the things that made him skarner.


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Lyanol

Junior Member

10-18-2013

Well since he just got released in the pbe and there's lots of time for improvement I'm saying this based off what he is now.

1) His Q should give higher stacks in attack speed, because hes a melee and needs to get in your face to attack, Jinx is ranged and gets 130% while skarner gets 24% max for landing a skill three times with a 3.5 sec cd.
2) I like his W movement speed gain but i think he should keep the speed even if his shield gets broken sure it has increased stats but it can still be broken thus cancelling his mms gain.
3) E i like that he has a strong slow on a line missile this is really good. Only thing is that is skarner meant to be an ap or ad bruiser? Id like him to have at least more than one skill that scales off ad.
4) R perfect and the who's the quicker draw aspect is really nice and if e doesn't get ad scaling than at least this skill should.
But again this is just based off what we see now changes are still coming so lets see.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
Fomorian27:
What does the root on ult before impalement entail? That players will not be able to flash out? Or that they will be able to flash out and get pulled back?


I think Scruffy explained this during his Skarner feedback thread.

It's basically "who pulls the trigger first" with regards to Flash/ult. If you ult before they Flash, "FEEL MY STING!" If they flash before you ult, "FEEL MY INFINITY EDGE!"


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Vroggoth

Member

10-18-2013

this is not a bad rework i like the changes E never really felt like it was worth leveling up now it looks like it does and breaking his shield doesnt kill his attack speed just his movement speed. olaf on the other hand, now that is a train wreck of a rework, so much attack speed and he feels nothing like the champ i loved.


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CoffeeTableFlip

Member

10-18-2013

Let me start off on a good point since i don't have too many good things to say about this.

Skarner is probably #3 in my jungle champ pool right now as of the Triforce buff I'm glad riot is taking time to try and rework him (he certainly needs it) and for that thank you riot.

However the changes they made here seem to gut his lane and jungle presence.

The changes to his Q feel like a big Nerf to me the fact the permaslow is removed means ganking pre-6 seems non existent now. It was weak to begin with without red or requiring the lane to provide most of the CC to get within range but now it feels like he has no sticking power pre-6 and would get out shined by nearly every other jungler.

The buff to the W doesn't seem to make up for the fact they ruined his Q and wrecked the rest of his kit. As someone else said before the attack speed being moved to the Q seems like pushing turrets will be harder.

My complaints on the E im going to have to hold off until i know whether or not you fixed the cast time and whether he still stands still to cast it but as others have said removing the heal might kill top lane Skarner completely.

I like the changes to his ultimate this needed to be done a long time ago this change is good for both skarner and his oppponents thank you

I can see why riot has problems with the permaslow on Skarner but it was really all Skarner had going for him as a duelist and to stick to targets besides his buggy ultimate (which it seems they've finally fixed with this) this whole rework seems like a nerf to both lane and jungle Skarner but i cant be 100% sure until we can test him out in PBE.
From what I've seen in this post i don't have too much hope

TLDR: removed perma slow = bad, shield buff doesn't make up for the way his kit was moved around and how bad his e might still be, good change to his ulti.


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wilmer007

Recruiter

10-18-2013

Top Lane Skarner here i come.


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Boomerkins Prime

Recruiter

10-18-2013

Quote:
lolrape:
I don't understand this rework whatsoever. While it may look like a buff to someone who doesn't actually play skarner, you took this poor bug and mercilessly stomped him into the ground.


As a Season 2 and Season 3 Skarner jungler with a pretty high W/L ratio with him, I will have to agree with lolrape on this one (Odd Login Name). Skarner's full power was that in your face permaslow Q, his movement speed/shield steroid W and his ult of course. I understand Riot's need to change his E since it is absolute garbage. When Jungling, I would just alternate between leveling Q and W before getting my ult, and only taking E when forced. Combined with Spirit of the Elder Lizard and a few other items, Skarner has sustained dps damage while slowing his targets into the ground. Equate it to Udyr wrecking your face with his stun every... i don't know every 2 seconds (I know it's not 2 seconds but it sure as hell feels like it).

Skarner needs help, we can all agree on that. However, I do not think Riot's direction fits with his playstyle. As a matter of fact, moving the slow from a melee on hit/on auto attack ability to a ranged ability changes who Skarner is. Skarner should continue to be an "In Your Face" enforcer much like his comparable champions (Udyr, Hecarim, Maokai). I would love to see Skarner stay who he is, but get some help with that E of his. I am ok with the changes to W and if you want to take away the attack speed buff that's fine. I have replaced it with a Wits End anyway. I will see what changes stick and evaluate from there.