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Skarner Rework coming to PBE

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dragonstrike45

Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
RiotScruffy:
Hey all, exciting news! Skarner is coming to the pbe in the next update with his new reworked kit. Here is the changelist and some explanation for why we ended up with these changes:

Base Attack speed lowered by 1%

Crystal Slash
-Mana cost reduced from 20/22/24/26/28 to 16/18/20/22/24
-When target is hit, applies an attack speed buff for 6s that stacks up to 3 times 4/5/6/7/8
-Slow removed from Crystal Slash (moved to Fracture)

Exoskeleton
-Attack speed component removed
-Cooldown lowered from 18s to 14s
-Max movepseed increased from 15/17/19/21/23 to 24/28/32/36/40 and ramps up over 3s
-Duration remains at 6s
-Shield value increased from 70/115/160/205/250 to 75/125/175/225/280
-Shield AP ratio increased from 0.6 to 0.8

Fracture
-Mana cost reduced from 50/55/60/65/70 to 30/35/40/45/50
-Heal removed
-Targets hit are slowed by 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s
-Missile range increased 800->1000
-Missile width reduced 120->90

Impale
-Impale now roots targeted champion during the windup animation
-VO for “feel my sting” etc will happen on successful grab instead of cast start


Explanations
-The attack speed buff was moved from W to Q to make Skarner more consistent and less feast or famine
-The slow was moved from Q to E to get rid of the frustrating perma slow of his old Q but also to allow him some more flexibility and ability to make catches/plays with the ranged slow on E
-W speed values are buffed to bring him in line with other similar bruisers
-R now has a more consistent ability to grab targets once he has started casting on them

These changes are still not final, and I want everyone to play the new kit and give us feedback.

-Scruffy


Hey Scruffy, this rework looks great for Skarner. His attackspeed now no longer relies on shield uptime, and his heal is removed in favour of a ranged slow. However, one small thing I have a concern for is his attackspeed. I know people have been saying this already, but why is it so low? There are numerous champions with stacking attackspeed, but I won't bother comparing champs like Jax or Jinx because they play a different role. I would like to compare someone like Volibear though. Voli gets 20% per stack at max rank (max. 3 stacks). By comparison Skarner gets a little over this value for having all 3 of his stacks up. If both champs are auto-attack centred tanky bruisers who have no gapclosers but rather movement speed modifiers, why does Skarner's attackspeed pale in comparison to Voli's? Another way to ask this is how can Skarner make up for this with the rest of his kit?

Obviously playtesting and everything will give you guys enough data to work on, but I'm just curious to know what the intent on this attackspeed feature was. I mean if its going to be so low, you may as well replace his attackspeed bonus with something like on-hit dmg or some dmg steroid so that it will actually be worth building some attackspeed on him. Just a thought. Otherwise the rework looks great .


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Sightless66

Senior Member

10-18-2013

I remain concerned that while his ganking potential may be better, he'll have less midgame utility due to the spreading of his utility over 3 abilities instead of 2, and he'll have less tankiness late game due to the loss of the heal. The lowering of his AP scaling is also slightly concerning. It will definitely make it more difficult for Skarner's enemies to make him completely useless. We'll see how it turns out. Should be fine overall.

Also, thank you for getting the attack speed off of his shield. Having that pop 1 second after you used it and getting no uptime on the attack speed was ungodly annoying. With that said, it's probably on the low end now. Consider increases. Getting rid of feast or famine is great and all, but not if it just leads to a more consistent famine. If he has almost no attack speed even with full stacks (and he may, because he will have one of the worst bases in the game along with mediocre per-level gains), it's going to be frustrating to try to utilize the passive.


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Fuzzkat

Member

10-18-2013

Good to see you remove some of the extraneous parts of his kit, like the heal, to make room in the power budget. The extra movespeed and ranged slow should help him feel sticky, which is what Skarner players like about him. And of course a more reliable ultimate might bring him back to competitive play in itself. I'm still a bit worried about his mana costs (people not leveling a spell at all due to this was pretty bad, but now they'll have to to get the slow). But if his ultimate truly is more reliable, the mana costs will be worth it.

I'll have to play him to give actual feedback. Thank you based Riot.


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Foggles

Senior Member

10-18-2013

I can see why you had to take so much of his attack speed away since you had to put it on his Q instead, and that would otherwise be too much offensive power in one ability, but I'm a bit concerned about how this affects his dueling potential. You've increased his durability a bit with the shield buffs, but without the perma-slow, the extra mobility isn't going to help him in small fights (vs 1 or 2 people). Was it really necessary to reduce his base attackspeed on top of that? Can you maybe add some more dueling power to his E instead? Either increase the damage on it or add an attackspeed debuff to it?

Or are you just trying to take away his dueling power and force him into more of an initiator/chaser?


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Mormpooid

Senior Member

10-18-2013

rip permaslow


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Zappier Kid

Junior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
CynicalGiant:
Why did you make his AS like 24-26% after fully stacked? It seems a little odd to me. That is such a low bonus to have to get stacks for.

I would guess the intent is for jungle clearing


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gg NA

Member

10-18-2013

This is a nerf to skarner and he is already pretty useless. You made him a bad version of Vi in my opinion.
The slow removable on Q pretty much nerfed this champ to the ground. He already has mana issues, this will just make it worst. So now we have to place a point on E? And now we have to decide whether to add points to Q for damage or E for a better slow ?
And you make it sound like E was an easy skill shot to land - it is easily dodge-able .


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Jordian

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
RiotScruffy:
Wall of text and stuffs
-Scruffy


Thank you Scruffy this rework is actually looking really well and I am really happy to try him out soon!

I really only have 1 question though. Skarner needs to be a very mobile champion and his E's cast time is REALLY annoying. I have played Skarner since S2 and am now Diamond1 with him as my most played champion still and this is one of the biggest things that annoy me. So have you got in rid of the cast time and if not why?

Oh sorry one last thing how do you feel his Ultimate is on such a small CD. Constant auto attacking makes his ultimate have a really small CD and yet it's game changing so I wonder if that's holding his power back at all.

I hope you have time to read this and thanks in advance!


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Buster

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
RiotScruffy:
Hey all, exciting news! Skarner is coming to the pbe in the next update with his new reworked kit. Here is the changelist and some explanation for why we ended up with these changes:

Base Attack speed lowered by 1%

Crystal Slash
-Mana cost reduced from 20/22/24/26/28 to 16/18/20/22/24
-When target is hit, applies an attack speed buff for 6s that stacks up to 3 times 4/5/6/7/8
-Slow removed from Crystal Slash (moved to Fracture)

Exoskeleton
-Attack speed component removed
-Cooldown lowered from 18s to 14s
-Max movepseed increased from 15/17/19/21/23 to 24/28/32/36/40 and ramps up over 3s
-Duration remains at 6s
-Shield value increased from 70/115/160/205/250 to 75/125/175/225/280
-Shield AP ratio increased from 0.6 to 0.8

Fracture
-Mana cost reduced from 50/55/60/65/70 to 30/35/40/45/50
-Heal removed
-Targets hit are slowed by 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s
-Missile range increased 800->1000
-Missile width reduced 120->90

Impale
-Impale now roots targeted champion during the windup animation
-VO for “feel my sting” etc will happen on successful grab instead of cast start


Explanations
-The attack speed buff was moved from W to Q to make Skarner more consistent and less feast or famine
-The slow was moved from Q to E to get rid of the frustrating perma slow of his old Q but also to allow him some more flexibility and ability to make catches/plays with the ranged slow on E
-W speed values are buffed to bring him in line with other similar bruisers
-R now has a more consistent ability to grab targets once he has started casting on them

These changes are still not final, and I want everyone to play the new kit and give us feedback. Thanks again for all of the help with this rework, we think Skarner will be better than ever.

-Scruffy


so let me get this straight...
old skarner: Q -> ulti -> Q -> duration of ult goes away you got the slow from the last q to keep going

new skarner: Q->Ulti -> you cant autoattack while you ulti so you get 0 benefit from your q ->Q

did you change his ult so he can use his other skills and autoattack during his ult? because this seems like a nerf.
its nice that you gave him a slow on his e but because he cant slow that often the attack speed doesnt really seem like it means much at all.

does the move speed boost stay regardless of if the shield goes away before the 6 seconds?
im really gonna have to try it when it gets on the pbe because skarner is my favorite jungler and some of this stuff seems really off.

[edit 1]
it still seems like he has the same issue where he has to build every stat.
attackspeed for his cooldowns
attack damage so his autos dont suck in the jungle
ap for his skills
armor and magic resists because he has to be somewhat tanky
movespeed because without his w he's fairly slow and cant do anything about dudes out of his range.

same problem, different package.


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Vergil

Recruiter

10-18-2013

Cool changes and all, but imo it still won't make skarner a good pick. The Q slow was pretty much the best thing he had. He doesn't have a knockup/knockback like J4 or Vi, or massive damage early/gap closers like Elise or Lee Sin, all he had was that ability to keep you slowed. Sure he can get to you a bit faster now but he has 1 mediocre slow the entire time (with a very short width hitbox to add) so if you miss it or anything you wasted time and probably wont even get an AA off. Feels like a shyvana to me but with 1 unreliable slow. Youl pretty much need redbuff to gank successfully unless your laner is like annie and has a 1.75 second stun