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anyone had much time to play with/against the morgana changes?

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get dat birdman

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Sir Fuzzball:
Zhonya's is still required to use her ult effectively and that kind of sucks. I mean which other mage has to stand in the middle of the enemy team and attach shiny effects to everyone with a giant kill me sign attached? Yes with zhonya's a well played ult is PAIN but zhonya's has a high cost; if you don't have it the teams will KILL you.


Kennen, Vladimir, Swain, Diana, Fiddlesticks, arguably Lissandra, Akali, Katarina. Not trying to detract from your point at all, but Morgana isn't unique in needing to be in the thick of things during her ultimate, though her ultimate's mechanics are fairly unique. Still, I am fairly sure he has reiterated over and over that they aren't looking to do a full rework on Morgana atm.


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xGluc

Junior Member

10-23-2013

ricklessabandon, have you ever consider adding slow to her soil and lower the damage? By adding damage to the soil not solving the problem of defending her tower, it just adds power to her laning phase but not her team fight or pushing/defending.

Also, people will pick Morgana for utility, and not huge AoE damage


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MrHarz

Senior Member

10-23-2013

I think at this point you've reached a point where the loss of utility is made up for with the increased damage (and synergy with liandry's oh my lord.)

At this point I think it's just a dicussion of whether people prefer the mr shredding utility or the increased damage.

I think at this point I could live without the mr shred given what we get in exchange, though I'd like to actually test Morg mid some more. Almost every PBE game I get into has someone lock in Heimer or Xerath or Ahri and basically force me into going jungle or support Morg instead.


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LastProtagonist

Senior Member

10-23-2013

I just noticed this for the first time, but when Morgana pools, or uses any ability for that matter, no green text indicating how much she's healed/healing appears.

I tested this out with Vlad (with spellvamp quints) as well and noticed that unless the ability is -meant- to give health (i.e. shows up on Q, not on E no health gains in green will be shown.


Furthermore, I'd like the green healing text to be a bit bolder and pop up higher over the champion.


As for Morg's autoattacks, I didn't notice much difference, but I guess I'm used to laning with champs like Brand and Anivia...speaking of which, can we ramp up Anivia and Fiddle's AA animations? =)


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7thHeaven

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
the former—when morgana hits 3, and puts a second point into ts. if she goes full glass cannon and heavy offense, she can clear the ranged minions if they eat all 10 ticks.

How fast did you die in combat with glass cannon build ?


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YolooSwaggins

Member

10-23-2013

Wow! Super glad I found this thread seeing as I am a major Morgana player (she brought me to plat this season! <3). Some quick thoughts.

1. Attack animation and range changes are will be fantastic!

2. I believe that her kit is quite well balanced although there are still some remnants left over from her original iteration. By this i mean that she used to be solely based around progressive DoT damage. Many forget that her binding was DoT, her shackles did much more damage on the stun than on activation, and of course the MR reduction on soil worked perfectly with this kit. It created the illusion that she did less damage when in actuality it was simply more multiplicative.

3. I've always been of the opinion that this Morgana should be based around the idea mentioned in point #2. She created the illusion of safety in chasing her which led to a very fun kite-tastic playstyle (though I love her current iteration as well)

**4**. I believe that altering tormented soil in the way you are preposing ignores one major factor. Morgana is inherently a team reliant champion and the effect of MR reduction essentially benefits your team to a greater extent by allowing bonus damage from ALL magic sources on your team and not JUST yours! I think that a smaller percentile based debuf increasing damage dealt from all sources would be much more effective. This could stack in a way very similar to the MR debuf now. By altering TS to just benefit Morgana you unfortunately remove some of the catch potential later in the game.

Thanks for the read! Im in the same boat as you, I've played Morgana from the very start and it's tough to make changes. Her balance is only slightly off, and I think she just needs some polish! She'll still kick Kayle's ass anyday ;]


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the nemesis123

Junior Member

10-24-2013

Let me put my view here. I have played somewhere between 200-300 games of morgana, though I am only silver V and this is my first post so I apologise if some of what I say sounds a bit stupid.

Morgana's kit, even though I understand it is fundamentally flawed, flows quite well on the live servers in the early levels.

W-Q-E-W-W-R seems to be the standard order for earlygame morgana.

In essence, her level 1 tormented soil on two spellcasts will completely wipe out the caster minions. Theoretically you should also be getting Q and E just in time to stop potential jungler ganks and all ins, which generally happen at levels 2-4 for most midlaners. Then at level 5, you get the 3 points in soil to give you a quicker push in order to start roaming at level 6.

I actually love this flow as it gives me a good idea of exactly what I can and cannot do at certain levels, which I don't get from a lot of champs. That said, other than using her ulti before you have a zhonyas, she is generally considered to be a low risk high reward champ that is quite anti-fun. I therefore thought up some ideas of how to change her so that she is less anti-fun whilst having a larger impact in late game teamfights.

Passive: Firstly, I think her passive should be changed and moved onto one of her spells, will give reasons for which spell and why later down, so won't cover that too much. I think a large part of her problem is not that she clears quickly (Ahri, Orianna, Gragas, Mord, Lux and Zed also clear very quickly in the early levels), but the fact that she passively regains health doing it mitigates a large amount of harass that most other midlaners can put out to counter her. I think her W passive should be moved onto here, but tweaked slightly so that it covers all of her spells but only affects champions.

Q: I actually think her Q is fine. I would love to have it scale down slightly with levels, maybe from 13->9 seconds instead of the 11 it is at currently, but that is just a small thing.

W: I think her W change suggested by ricklessabandon should be tuned so that it is in line with her current W (1/2 clear level 1 W, full clear level 3 W). Perhaps there could be a liandrys type debuff for standing in it that stacks, but I don't think that is essential. Other than that, I think the range should be reduced slightly.

E: I think her E should stay the same. Perhaps spending a bit of time tweaking the mana costs so that W is less punishing mana wise to use and shifting this onto her E could be better. I also think that this is where the spell vamp passive should go with a 5/10/15/20/25% scaling. What this will do is weaken her earlygame ability to absorb poke and aggression, whilst creating two options for skill pathing second and changing morgana's playstyle a bit around each one (Either leveling Q or E, one allowing more poke/damage due to reduced cooldowns and other more defensive).

R: Lastly, I love morgana's ultimate, but I actually think it should be changed slightly so to have more effect on those who would just shift away (zed, kassadin, ezreal and other more recent products of the rising mobility creep). If we keep morgana as a teamfighting champion, then I think her Ult is the place to show this by giving her Ult more strength or more utility depending on how many people she catches with it. This makes 5 man ultis more impactful whilst punishing not hitting a decent ulti. Have a few ideas for this, a scaling slow that either scales off the number of people she catches in her ultimate or scales off the distance the opponent gets from you (for example, 0-30% depending on how far you are from morgana), either that or have it do more damage. This will allow morgana to have a stronger lategame presence as she lacks a lot in the damage/utility department in the lategame (more supports can do better utility, most mids do more damage).

---------------------------------------

This is what I ideally think Morgana should be changed to (changes underlined):

Quote:
Passive (Name pending):

Any champion hit by a spell from Morgana gains a magic reduction of 5/7/10 for 3 seconds. This will include ticks on tormented soil and can stack up to a maximum of 5 times. Any extra stacks will reset the timer. (Subject to balancing changes).

Dark Binding:

RANGE: 1300
COOLDOWN: 13/12/11/10/9
COST: 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 MANA

ACTIVE: Morgana releases a sphere of dark magic that travels in a line, dealing magic damage and rooting the first enemy unit it hits for a short time.

Projectile Speed: 1200
MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+ 90% AP)
ROOT DURATION: 2 / 2.25 / 2.5 / 2.75 / 3

Tormented Soil:

RANGE: 800
COOLDOWN: 10
COST: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 MANA

ACTIVE: Morgana infects target 175-radius area for 5 seconds, causing enemy units who stand on the location to take magic damage and have their magic resistance reduced each second. The magic resist reduction lasts 1 second after last being affected by tormented soil and can stack.

MAGIC DAMAGE PER SECOND: 24 / 38 / 52 / 66 / 80 (+ 22% AP)
MAXIMUM MAGIC DAMAGE: 120 / 190 / 260 / 330 / 400 (+ 110% AP)

Tormented Soil's damage now increases up to 50% based on the enemy's missing Health
Damage application cadence increased to every 0.5 seconds from every 1 second

Black Shield:

RANGE: 750
COOLDOWN: 23 / 21 / 19 / 17 / 15
COST: 70 MANA

ACTIVE: Places a shield around target friendly champion for up to 5 seconds, absorbing magic damage and preventing disables while the shield holds.
PASSIVE: Morgana gains 5/10/15/20/25% spell vamp

SHIELD STRENGTH: 80 / 140 / 200 / 260 / 320 (+ 70% AP)

Soul Shackles:

RANGE: 600
COOLDOWN: 120 / 110 / 100
COST: 100 MANA

ACTIVE: Morgana latches chains of energy onto nearby enemy champions for 3 seconds, dealing initial magic damage to them after a brief delay of 0.5 seconds and reducing their movement speed by 20% if the target(s) stay within 1050 range.

If the target(s) does not break the tether after 3 seconds, they are dealt the same amount of magic damage again and they are also stunned for 1.5 seconds.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 175 / 250 / 325 (+ 70% AP)
TOTAL MAGIC DAMAGE PER TARGET: 350 / 500 / 650 (+ 140% AP)

Soul Shackles slows targets depending on the number of champions caught, giving a 5/10/15/20/25% slow for 3 seconds.


EDIT: A few comments.

I think the passive can be tweaked around until such a time where it is right. I think it would give more strength to morgana in double AP comps as well as increase her strength at support. It could be tweaked to include monsters if people wanted to keep jungle morgana. Since morgana only has 3 damaging spells and relatively long cooldowns on them and only two reliable sources of damage (first tick of ulti plus soil), it would make tormented soil a more powerful weapon within a teamfight, as it would be the only way to get the full 5 stacks on the passive. This, as well as the % damage increase based on missing health would make her W more impactful within teamfights, whilst keeping her level 3 W in the laning phase. As well as this, it does also encourage her to land bigger ultimates due to debuffs landing on more people

I have reduced the range on her W slightly as I think it will give her a higher risk laning phase without actually having to autoattack the minions. With her rubbish auto animation and 450 (I think it is now) range, she is a sitting duck any time she autos and autoattacking should be discouraged IMO. Morgana is a mage, not a marksman. She uses her spells to clear up waves.

I have also tweaked the numbers on her shield slightly. I think that opponents, especially in the early levels, should be more able to break the shield before said target gets away as the key to the shield is not the resistance to magic damage but the resistance to CC. Again, this is subject to edit, but would give an opponent more counterplay and more of a chance to burst her shield before she just walks out of the fight or to tower or something.

I think that giving a slow on the ulti will help mitigate some of the issues the ult has. I still think the ult should not be a guaranteed stun, but I think that even those who escape should be punished for getting into morgana's ult range. I think this punishment should be a slow, which will allow the rest of the team to follow up on people fleeing morgana's ult. A few other ideas could be to give a slow for breaking the tether or give the damage anyways but not the stun.

As of current, morgana falls off heavily in the late game. I hope that my proposed changes would trade off some of her earlygame safety in exchange for more utility and damage in lategame teamfights.

Lastly, I am not sure how this would be best done, but I think that morgana should be gradually changed so that zhonyas does not benefit her as much, as zhonyas makes her teamfighting very linear. I would much rather have a situation where she has something like a RoA/Rylais and the option to use her shield on herself (in essence a tanky caster) rather than the invunerability. I wouldn't know how to do this, but making her ult not work with zhonyas or have a tradeoff if using zhonyas would be a huge change, but a change in the right direction to make her a more interesting champ.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
the former—when morgana hits 3, and puts a second point into ts. if she goes full glass cannon and heavy offense, she can clear the ranged minions if they eat all 10 ticks.


Was finally able to test the new version today.
With around 55-60 AP and a rank 2 W you can clear the ranged minions now. Not too important as long as you max W first, but may be able to put 1-2 extra points into Q early without losing all your laning abilities.

The new AA feels way better. These changes are awesome even when they are only for the laning phase.

My problem with the new W is that it is super strong against champs that are not at full HP. One Q hit and a W follow up deals a lot of dmg against an enemy that is not at full HP.
I was not able to do the math up to now (still work to do before i get time for hobby math), but it seems to be a lot of dmg. Maybe go down to 10-50%.
The dmg especially against squishy targets is enormous once Q lands. Especially a rank 5 Q.

But this version is way better than the 3% missing HP and it is even better for farming (cause minions lose % max HP faster).

Only a fast feedback after a short test.


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Cha Cha San

Senior Member

10-25-2013

I'm liking the new changes now compared to dealing %hp missing. Her W now feels more powerful, clears at level 3 easily (and even level 2 with the right runes and dorans ring), and she still clears jungle camps well.


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Delta Sniper

Senior Member

10-25-2013

So i suppose i should chime in as a Morgana support player.

First thing i noticed was the q missile speed was increased. i am pretty sure this is the case but i was on a friends computer at the time and not my usual setup.

I do clear the camps faster now then i did before which makes it easier for me to push my bot lane after the adc has gone mid for an unknown reason.

I just got into the beta so i dont have experience with her old/newer rework where it did percentage missing health damage.

naturally being a support i don't get much ap until i get my Needlessly large rod or occasionally my kage's lucky pick.

I like the changes. the tooltip is reading it damages every second but clearly its every half second but im sure this will be addressed.

Overall it is a buff for me as a support because when i q some one they get more ticks from my soil. I'm sure this will help me quite a bit as i am already positive with her as support. just something to be aware of.