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anyone had much time to play with/against the morgana changes?

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blindcyde80

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
thanks for the feedback so far, all! for those that remember, could you also let me know what you're running as runes, masteries, and start items (especially for those commenting about low-level minion clear). we've tested with a few different sets and i want to make sure don't miss any variables.

i'll make a post with some substance to it on like, monday or so. i'll talk numbers, theory, etc then—probably won't post a ton more this weekend since i need to make sure i actually reset and sleep some before diving back into work. :3

thanks again for the info/insight thus far!



LMAO masteries, or experiences, dont really matter since none of them work currently. testing for all the reworks / stat changes are pretty much meaningless currently, other than seeing the new abilities and how they work

numbers in the meantime would have at least been SOMEWHAT helpful, so people can actually do some maths (omg no!!) and figure out if the damage will be similar to live's current implementation and ability to farm


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Nahath

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Also, no matter what happens with AP Morg, this is a big nerf to support Morg (which is currently my best character/role). That's a major disappointment.


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Finneon

Senior Member

10-12-2013

The change is pretty bad right now to be honest. I'm not even sure what the logic in making it do %missing health is, it certainly doesn't stop anyone from taking all your farm late game. If the intention is to buff Morgana or help her in some way, then something went very, very wrong.


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MrHarz

Senior Member

10-12-2013

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3944413

Relevant stats within, it's a nerf.


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Irelia Bot

Member

10-12-2013

Can we get the reasoning behind these changes added to the first post.

If we have no context on why this change should happen then it is hard to judge if these changes are helping with what they are aimed at or if they are even needed at all.

Overall I don't think that the new version has much if anything over the old version unless you are facing a health stacking mundo.


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IS16644abc21e26177f366a

Junior Member

10-12-2013

I don't usually go to forums and post things, but I felt I had to do this with these changes on Morgana.
Her W consists of alot of things, but mostly you can associate them with the wave clear and the mr shred.
The wave clear Is important for her, she doesnt have a high burst, being a 2 part damage ult, a single target skillshot and the W that is aoe dot. The AoE DoT itself doest do much damage, but the MR shred helps the rest of the burst to go even higher. With these changes, you may think you're amping her damage, when actually it's a straigh nerf. You could argue that late game against a 5k hp shen its better, but come on, really? you should have a liandry by that point, not insert liandry in a skill for the convenience of straight damage in replacement of something really usefull for Morgana AND her team.
And as a main Morgana I just have to say that pulling that combo with ult using the MR shred is just awesome, and takes most players offguard, since they dont expect to get that much damage.
Thats just my two cents, but I just think this is dumbing morgana down to straight damage and no cool plays and strategies


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Isysar

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Yes Rickless you need to be aware that masteries are completely broken on the PBE right now. That's probably part of the reason people are having problems. Please get this fixed! We haven't had a red reply on it yet. There's a thread here:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3944350

and here:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3943819

and here:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3943448

and here:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3937869

and even one more here:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3941863


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PedestrianA

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Morgana is losing too much waveclear potential as many have talked about.

And from what I have heard, the reason Morgana fall off so heavily nowadays is the way she lacks any reliable way of wave clearing especially in the late game when fast pushing is required. Maybe extra damage to minions is required.

The W MR shed is a bit out dated, but I don't think changes are required consider as it is more of a meta issue. But the inability to wave clear as a mage is a pretty big issue, and she is not such a good top laner either.

Plus with Lissandra/Gragas, most the role Morgana can play is filled(AoE lock down/separating teams)

That is the problem I see in Morgana, let's see how Riot fix it.


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Isysar

Senior Member

10-12-2013

I've only played WITH a Morgana in one bot game so far, but whoever was playing her said the same thing as people in this thread: The tormented soil change is a nerf and you can no longer clear caster minions with it at level 5 (3 points in it). However this last part may be due to masteries being broken on the PBE right now.

If you intend to nerf her ability to long range AFK farm in mid, I can understand that IN THE LANING PHASE. But as others here have said, one of the primary reasons that Morgana isn't used anymore is because she lacks any meaningful wave clear in teamfights and tower sieging scenarios. There's also the problem of Soil doing very little damage to enemy champions unless you can Q or ult someone in it.

I think Tormented Soil needs several changes to be viable:

Give Tormented Soil the Nasus Spirit Fire treatment: have 40-50% of the damage in the area be done as up front burst, with the ticking dot for the remaining 60-50% of the damage. This spell is now more useable for killing minions and for hurting champions that don't stick around in it.

Give this single instance of upfront burst damage 50% of her current total MR shred (10/12.5/15/17.5/20) which lasts for 5 seconds. This increases the utility of this spell, and restores the cool use case Morgana players like of laying down Pool just before Q to buff the damage from Q. (This would actually be a buff to Q's damage slightly, as it shreds for more in 1 tick of Soil damage than on live, but Tormented Soil's range would be reduced to make this W before Q play harder to land but more rewarding)

Give the periodic ticks of Tormented Soil (which have the remaining 60-50% of the spell's damage) + % missing health damage. Most of the damage is still in standing in the pool for the full duration.

To compensate for these noticeable buffs and provide counterplay:

Reduce the cast range of the soil somewhat significantly so Morgana can't AFK farm so easily in lane. Like move it down to 700 from 900. She's got spell vamp, and she builds tanky as it is because of how her kit works. She'll rush Zhonya's anyways against AD lanes, and she's got black shield vs AP lanes. She can take a hit by having to move closer to use pool. And she needs to do that. That's precisely what's frustrating about laning against Morgana is that it's hard to engage on her or harass her while she's farming. When she moves into put down the soil, there needs to be a window of interaction with whoever she's laning against.

Also reduce the radius of the Soil slightly (to like 150 from 175).



While this is a step in the right direction, I think Morgana needs more than this to be in better shape. I think something needs to be done to her passive. If the goal is to prevent Morgana from AFK farming, getting her to interact with her opponent and providing her with stronger wave clear late game, I think the spell vamp should be removed. That's part of why Morgana such a passive lane, and it rarely translates into that last bit of health that lets you survive in a teamfight (b/c only her Q is a single target spell and gives you a noticeable chunk of HP at once).


Looking to the S1 trailer for inspiration, notice that Morgana creates these dodgeable balls of green energy. What if Morgana's new passive was an autoattack enhancer, but in a skill shot way. Say that when a target dies with the MR reduction effect on them from Tormented Soil, Morgana gains a stack of Siphoned Souls (her new passive), up to a cap of, like, 10 or something.

While Morgana has a Siphoned Soul, her autoattack becomes a very fast skillshot, and deals bonus magic damage (with some AP scaling) on hit. As you level up, these Siphoned Soul green orbs gain a small AoE radius. An enemy can tell when she has souls available by having spheres orbit around her, or some other particle notification. Ooooh, maybe tie it to those randomly ghostly crosses that are on the Morgana base skin? (But make them more noticeable obviously).

What would such a change do? Well, it'd hurt her some early game: she's have to position to last hit minions in a such a way that her skill shot autoattacks don't get blocked by other minions. When I say "a very fast skillshot" I mean something that's basically undodgeable by an enemy champion unless they use a mobility spell or a Rammus in powerball level of movespeed boost. The intent of it being a "skill shot" is just that minions block it. This kind of positioning would force her into positions where the enemy laner can interact with her more when she goes to last hit but also if these Siphoned Soul autoattacks hurt enough, Morgana would be inclined to try to autoattack harass the enemy after farming with Soil. You could play with this: if it's a super fast missile, make the damage on it fairly low, but if it's slower and more dodgeable, give it stronger damage. I'm thinking it should be fast, but there's no other case in the game (other than Blinding effects which are gradually being removed and Jax's Counterstrike) where your champion's autoattack doesn't do anything.

Mid-Late game, to help with farming, as her passive scales up once or twice, these empowered autoattacks can gain AoE damage, allowing her to farm waves better.

Finally, this change adds two final nuance to her character in relation to how she is used in a teamfight. Prior to a teamfight, if you build up a stack of Souls from farming with Soil, Morgana now has something meaningful to DO in a teamfight after her long cooldowns are blown. Second, there are two kinds of Morgana ults: ones where you try to CC as many people as possible, or, ones where there's one target you're trying to lockdown the whole fight with a W --> Q --> Ult combo. In the scenario where you've got that one target you're trying to kill, Morgana can stay close to the rooted target and add more damage with autoattacks while she's waiting for the second activation of her Ult to come off. This is a high-risk, high reward thing, as what USUALLY happens when Morgana ults is that massive burst and focus fire comes her way unless she uses Zhonyas and/or black shield.

I know I wrote a lot, but these changes would make Morgana a more balanceable, interactive character with more depth and the ability to farm past the laning phase while reducing her AFK farm tendancies on live and her play pattern of never interacting with the enemy champion in lane until her jungler comes to gank or she can all-in them. This makes her more vulernable in lane, but given that she builds tanky and often initates teamfights later, moves her more into the medium-to-melee range that Morgana belongs by giving her extra autoattack damage.


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Nicksiren

Recruiter

10-13-2013

No longer having MR reduction hurts her viability with magic dmg heavy team comps. This is by far my biggest gripe. However, I wouldn't feel to bad about trading this as long as she gets something useful to her kit as a tradeoff.