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Looking for Ziggs Q feedback

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Ki Striker

Junior Member

10-11-2013

I recently got back to playing ziggs and and kept on BEGGING for this feature in my head. i did a little victory dance when i read this.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

10-11-2013

Quote:
Khristophoros:
I think it'll hurt his laning because precisely placed bombs on minions is key to poking the opponent. Basically it's like... the exact position where you threw the bomb is where the center of the explosion is as long as there is a unit within the impact range. So with very precise placement you can have it explode just on the edge of minions to hit a nearby champion.

I think it'll be harder to do that precisely because targeting slightly out of the cast range will no longer cause Ziggs to walk into range.


Yeah, that's the case that may be penalized here. Based off internal testing our feeling is that the hit there's small compared to the benefit gained r.e. quickly throwing max range bombs, particularly since it's post laning phase that Ziggs struggles a bit and that's where this change should help him most. Internal testing's a fairly small pool of players/number of games though, so PBE feedback can be really valuable when testing this sort of change.


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Jace77

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
Meddler:
Yeah, that's the case that may be penalized here. Based off internal testing our feeling is that the hit there's small compared to the benefit gained r.e. quickly throwing max range bombs, particularly since it's post laning phase that Ziggs struggles a bit and that's where this change should help him most. Internal testing's a fairly small pool of players/number of games though, so PBE feedback can be really valuable when testing this sort of change.


would it be too complicated to make the immediate area around his range behave the way it currently does on live but skills thrown further out go instantly?


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CaptenAmazingMk2

Junior Member

10-11-2013

I remember this discussion coming up when you were looking at making the change for a post-death karthus. Someone also suggested doing the same thing for Lucent Singularity on Lux.

The case you're prescribing is one that helps in a teamfight while hurting laning, but what we're really doing is rewarding people for not learning their mechanics properly. I expect a ziggs player who doesn't know the range on his bombs to cast worse bombs than a ziggs who does, and not to get a lucky double kill because the bomb flew off and caught people on the last bounce.

The precision of the ability is important and i'd prefer to have ziggs walk to max range and throw than just chuck it out there.


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Exiled Heretic

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
Meddler:
Yeah, that's the case that may be penalized here. Based off internal testing our feeling is that the hit there's small compared to the benefit gained r.e. quickly throwing max range bombs, particularly since it's post laning phase that Ziggs struggles a bit and that's where this change should help him most. Internal testing's a fairly small pool of players/number of games though, so PBE feedback can be really valuable when testing this sort of change.


I would love to test this. Give me a code for pbe please


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l1ghtn1ngt4m3r

Senior Member

10-11-2013

I've been waiting for this type of change to Ziggs Q since arams started and i somehow managed to get him in 50% of my games. However I don't have a pbe account so i can't comment on it. I am really looking forward to making it do this on live though.


On a side note, There are many more spells similar to Ziggs Q which I would like to see in this mana, Orianna Q being a noticeable example. i think the reason why this is for me is because once a skill gets a CD lower than 3 seconds i don't care whether i hit it or not i just want to deal optimal dps. thats the reason I turn on smartcasting anyway. An option to toggle the casting on these types of abilities would be greatly appreciated.

Maybe you could work it into the smart casting option (but that would hurt a lot of players who don't want the change).

This has also been done for Karthus Q's as well once he dies and is in passive. Maybe you could post a way to modify the source code for particular champions to create targeting like that - might be against TOU though.

Thanks for doing it to Ziggs. I really hope it makes it to live. And after that I hope you guys can create a option for us to toggle all/none of our own skills for any champion in a similar manner. call it Range-Casting or something.


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CaptenAmazingMk2

Junior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
l1ghtn1ngt4m3r:
I've been waiting for this type of change to Ziggs Q since arams started and i somehow managed to get him in 50% of my games. However I don't have a pbe account so i can't comment on it. I am really looking forward to making it do this on live though.


On a side note, There are many more spells similar to Ziggs Q which I would like to see in this mana, Orianna Q being a noticeable example. i think the reason why this is for me is because once a skill gets a CD lower than 3 seconds i don't care whether i hit it or not i just want to deal optimal dps. thats the reason I turn on smartcasting anyway. An option to toggle the casting on these types of abilities would be greatly appreciated.

Maybe you could work it into the smart casting option (but that would hurt a lot of players who don't want the change).

This has also been done for Karthus Q's as well once he dies and is in passive. Maybe you could post a way to modify the source code for particular champions to create targeting like that - might be against TOU though.

Thanks for doing it to Ziggs. I really hope it makes it to live. And after that I hope you guys can create a option for us to toggle all/none of our own skills for any champion in a similar manner. call it Range-Casting or something.



This is a big concern of mine. Sometimes we make changes that enforce consistency and then other times we forget and we throw that away. If we do it for Ori's ball and Zigg's Q then the playing experience becomes inconsistent. Why not Twitch's poison as well and Syndra's balls? Suddenly there's an extra dynamic in my game - on some champs I know I have to move into range to cast an ability because otherwise it'll just go max range and for others I can cast it where i want it to land because the champ will move there and give me a chance to cancel the order if I want.

Why create that dynamic? Are Ziggs players losing games left right and centre because he walked a few hundred units to throw that last critical bomb? I'd love to know the reasoning behind this and the thought process that went into why Ziggs is a special case.


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General Stinky

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Ive been waiting for this.....


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MadRob

Senior Member

10-11-2013

what if we solved this problem on all champions by making an option to turn on or off whether the champ moves to cast at max range or cast from where champ is currently. you could call it Spell snapping or something like that.

I liked the old way Annie and Morde would cast their cone attack, I would hate to see ziggs get this. If there was an option like this I would use it


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Prizzles

Senior Member

10-11-2013

I've tested this several times in games against bots and I do not like the change. Movement in the game can already be somewhat difficult and the ability to use an ability to assist in moving your characters was a key part in understanding Ziggs. Navigating around/through creep waves without auto attacking is somewhat difficult and I always found using Q as a way to assist in the movement of your character was paramount to what actually made Ziggs a quality champion.

I consider this change a rather large nerf to my favorite League champion. It is what it is however and if it stays then I'll learn how to adjust but I do not like the change and think it is very hurtful to Ziggs overall gameplay.