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Mid Zyra Nerf compensation

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Gidoru

Senior Member

10-15-2013

Quote:
Voidgolem:
if we're compensating people for nerfing things unrelated to their main role where are my urgot buffs from other people abusing cleaver/manamune?

and the jungle rengar buffs from having his toplane absolutely dumped on?

answer me that and then we can talk about your crutch option getting slapped on the wrist.


1. Cleaver/muramana are not items that were made exclusively for Urgot, so your point is moot.

2. Rengar is still a viable top laner. There are several very high ranked people that almost exclusively play Rengar with great success. Hes also used in Korea to some degree. Rengar also has serious design problems as explained by Riot, thus the need for the incoming rework unlike Zyra.


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Sheerkal

Junior Member

10-15-2013

Quote:
CertainlyT:
Zyra's more than viable mid lane, although one who has greater matchup variance than our more commonly picked mids like Ahri. If Zyra doesn't feel strong there, that's a problem with her design and I'll take full blame.


I fully agree with CeratinlyT. Zyra is a very good mid, but she is more affected by lane matchups. Any lane matchups with shorter range and w/o pre-6 dodges (I.E. Karthus, Annie, Akali, Ryze, Mordekaiser, Malzahar etc.), Zyra tends to crush pre-6. On the other hand match-ups like Fizz, Katarina, or Gragas, who can easily dodge and out-trade her, she has trouble with.


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Ginga

Recruiter

10-16-2013

Quote:
Voidgolem:
if we're compensating people for nerfing things unrelated to their main role where are my urgot buffs from other people abusing cleaver/manamune?

and the jungle rengar buffs from having his toplane absolutely dumped on?

answer me that and then we can talk about your crutch option getting slapped on the wrist.


Because being able to use spells more often and dealing damage has NOTHING to do with being an AP mid amirite?


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acrid56

Senior Member

10-16-2013

i'd suggest losing the some base damage, but compensating with an ap ratio boost.


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Amordys

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Why is this not getting seen more? like what.


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Gidoru

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Amordys:
Why is this not getting seen more? like what.


Better question is why does Riot barely scratch Kassadin, applying as many buffs as they do nerfs meanwhile completely gut Zyra mid.

CertainlyT is 'not interested' in compensating Zyra mid for support Zyra nerfs. Meanwhile Kassadin, the most broken champion in the game seems to receive plenty of compensation when hes legitimately broken and lacks any semblance of counterplay.


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Theedge634

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Gidoru:
Better question is why does Riot barely scratch Kassadin, applying as many buffs as they do nerfs meanwhile completely gut Zyra mid.

CertainlyT is 'not interested' in compensating Zyra mid for support Zyra nerfs. Meanwhile Kassadin, the most broken champion in the game seems to receive plenty of compensation when hes legitimately broken and lacks any semblance of counterplay.


Yea pretty ridiculous, they should lower the base damage on q, and give it awesome scaling, and if they shorten her range, they really should raise her movement speed.


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Amordys

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Gidoru:
Better question is why does Riot barely scratch Kassadin, applying as many buffs as they do nerfs meanwhile completely gut Zyra mid.

CertainlyT is 'not interested' in compensating Zyra mid for support Zyra nerfs. Meanwhile Kassadin, the most broken champion in the game seems to receive plenty of compensation when hes legitimately broken and lacks any semblance of counterplay.



I think it's completely unprofessional to blatantly act like this is okay for them to do.
He's really not even trying to compromise or understand.
From what he's sayin, Here's THIS tell me your opinion so I can disagree with it if it's not the same as mine and move along, oh btw we're still gonna do what I think is better.


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Vsin

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Gidoru:
Better question is why does Riot barely scratch Kassadin, applying as many buffs as they do nerfs meanwhile completely gut Zyra mid.

CertainlyT is 'not interested' in compensating Zyra mid for support Zyra nerfs. Meanwhile Kassadin, the most broken champion in the game seems to receive plenty of compensation when hes legitimately broken and lacks any semblance of counterplay.

I dunno about you, but those Kass changes look like hamfisted nerfs to me.

- Q nerfs are obvious.
- Base MR nerfs are obvious.

Riftwalk no longer stacks from blank casts. This is a MASSIVE nerf against roaming Kass, as a huge chunk of his roaming damage potential comes from a stacked Riftwalk. Yes, 0 stack Riftwalk is better now, but it's surpassed with TWO stacks of live. Additionally, the newer Riftwalk only stacks on consecutive Champion hits, which means that Kass will straight up die if he tries. The only situation where this is a buff is if Kass manages to consecutively Riftwalk on a lone, fleeing target...but that's pretty darn hard to do even right now.

It's also a pretty darn hefty nerf to Mana Tank Kass (more popular in Domi than SR, but it's a thing) which was wholly reliant on stacking Riftwalk for damage.


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Gidoru

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Vsin:
I dunno about you, but those Kass changes look like hamfisted nerfs to me.

- Q nerfs are obvious.
- Base MR nerfs are obvious.

Riftwalk no longer stacks from blank casts. This is a MASSIVE nerf against roaming Kass, as a huge chunk of his roaming damage potential comes from a stacked Riftwalk. Yes, 0 stack Riftwalk is better now, but it's surpassed with TWO stacks of live. Additionally, the newer Riftwalk only stacks on consecutive Champion hits, which means that Kass will straight up die if he tries. The only situation where this is a buff is if Kass manages to consecutively Riftwalk on a lone, fleeing target...but that's pretty darn hard to do even right now.

It's also a pretty darn hefty nerf to Mana Tank Kass (more popular in Domi than SR, but it's a thing) which was wholly reliant on stacking Riftwalk for damage.




1. Silence was not nerfed it was buffed. They increased the silence duration for early levels. This is probably the most overpowered aspect of his kit and it wasnt touched. It completely prevents any lane interaction and limits his counter play overall.

2. Q Mana cost was substantially reduced.

3. Riftwalk refunds 50% of mana when hitting a champion

4. Riftwalk probably does more damage than it does on live at lvl 6 because the base damage was increased and he doesnt really have AP that early in the game anyway due to prioritizing mana items.

Point being, rather than just apply flat nerfs to Kassadin who by all means is an incredibly overpowered champion, they applied an equal amount of buffs to various aspects of kit. On the other hand, they just completely gut Zyra when shes nowhere near as OP as Kassadin and say they are 'not interested' in compensating mid Zyra for these nerfs. As such its easy to understand why their balance philosophy is laughable at best.