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Mid Zyra Nerf compensation

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Rashidas

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
CertainlyT:
Zyra's more than viable mid lane, although one who has greater matchup variance than our more commonly picked mids like Ahri. If Zyra doesn't feel strong there, that's a problem with her design and I'll take full blame.

That being said, these changes were focused on improving her play pattern (as and against) overall. The base damages we reduced will hurt mid Zyra much less than duo lane Zyra. The seed usability improvements will help both mid and bot Zyra feel like they have greater control over their champion. All in all, I don't see 3.13 as hurting mid Zyra much.


I see you were just as high in this post as your were in the other thread.


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Auweh

Member

10-13-2013

I think when Riot nerf a champion they take a look to the pro players, and there Zyra is one of the strongest support and also a very powerfull mid , one of the best 10 mid easily.


Even if my meaning is that a zed nerf would have been better.


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Ishinokao

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Morello said he'd like to make her more of a sustained damage mage, and have her revolve more around using her plants.

But those changes aren't supposed to be coming until S4.


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omkeyu

Member

10-13-2013

The main problem with support zyra harass comes from free plant damage. Even if you dodge her Q or E, as long as she drops 2 seeds anywhere in the aoe, the plants will get off 2-6 hits of uncounterable free damage that cost Zyra 0 additional mana and zone for 10 seconds.

This change will reward ranged bot laners for dodging her spells while maintaining effectiveness against melee assassins mid.

Require seeds to mature fully over a one second period.
Plants grown from an immature seed have a:
-2/3 attack range
-4 total health (destroyed by 2 champion autoattacks instead of 3)
Last 2/3 total time
-Either reduced slow% or slow length

Plants grown from fully mature seeds are the same as now

Additionally, destroying a plant grants at least 10 gold.

Compensate by:
Reverting movespeed
Increase E ratio

This puts more risk in using her plants. If she just drops 2 seeds on a missed spell, she'll end up pushing and feeding free gold to the enemy carry who at most will take 2 hits before walking away. Good support Zyras can still shine by waiting for seeds to mature, drop seeds closer to the edge of Q, or land their roots.

This change will be negligible against melee assassins mid since melee champs must still enter plant range to cs. Compensatory buffs will additionally increase her strength mid with little effects on her strength bot.

Edit: tried posting in GD but that turned into thread about buff normal supports, not save mid zyra


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Albireo

Senior Member

10-14-2013

Quote:
SHOCK AND HORROR, A SUPPORT DEALS RELEVANT DAMAGE, NEEDS NERFS NAO.


That's the thing that bother me more than the nerf itself. It's because she can actually harass ADCs, Other lanes get a lot of harrass, whihout having another characther there to protect them. And she is doing it with a spell that is just raw damage, is n ot even a spell with utility attach to it.

ADCs are the best scaling characther in the games, and every support that has a somehow decent early poke is nerfed every time, and that's are the only lvls that you can actually do something, after they get two dorans (wich they always start with one anyway) and a vampiric, wich all the BT and BC uses anyway build quick. That's it, you can't really do anything to actually hurt him, and if he hit you, that's half of your health right there.

This is for support role in general. Make ADCs early, actually weak, that how it suppose to be for how hard the can scale. Otherwise we will start watching more mages going bot until we get Tabe's Cassiopea support dream.


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Zahlfast

Junior Member

10-14-2013

Could we hear from Riot again in response to the concerns in this thread about the nerfs targeted at support Zyra pushing her out of the mid lane?


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Gidoru

Senior Member

10-14-2013

Quote:
Zahlfast:
Could we hear from Riot again in response to the concerns in this thread about the nerfs targeted at support Zyra pushing her out of the mid lane?


Can we hear something from Riot that doesnt consist of claims that mid Zyra is too strong when all evidence points to this being false?


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Miss Estrogen

Junior Member

10-15-2013

I play mid lane Zyra a lot. She is too strong when built right. I barely have a bad game. She puts out a lot of damage. She is one of the stronger AP mids. A nerf wouldn't be the worst thing in the world; and if as they're saying this nerf won't affect her too much mid, then she'll still be strong.

I rarely see people mid as Zyra anymore. Most are supports bottom. So maybe all this whining about mid Zyra not being as strong because of the nerfs, maybe it's just Supports trying to maintain the damage.

I'm willing to try these changes to see how they affect mid play. But the way I build and play her, I doubt it will be affected too much.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

10-15-2013

if we're compensating people for nerfing things unrelated to their main role where are my urgot buffs from other people abusing cleaver/manamune?

and the jungle rengar buffs from having his toplane absolutely dumped on?

answer me that and then we can talk about your crutch option getting slapped on the wrist.


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Gidoru

Senior Member

10-15-2013

Quote:
Miss Estrogen:
I play mid lane Zyra a lot. She is too strong when built right. I barely have a bad game. She puts out a lot of damage. She is one of the stronger AP mids. A nerf wouldn't be the worst thing in the world; and if as they're saying this nerf won't affect her too much mid, then she'll still be strong.


the fact that Zyra is never played competitively as a mid laner or high level solo queue combined with her almost non existent ban rate seem to suggest that shes not an overpowered mid laner.