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Mid Zyra Nerf compensation

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Gidoru

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Since you're nerfing Zyra because of her effectiveness as support are you planning on compensating Mid Zyra with any buffs in this patch?

As it stands Mid Zyra already lies on the fringes of viability so it stands to reason you should compensate her in some form in mid lane.

Increase her base stats/ Move speed, something.


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Supreme Evaine

Senior Member

10-10-2013

The easiest thing I think they could do would be to lower base damages, increase ratios, maybe lower CC durations and reduce cooldowns a bit.


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CertainlyT

Champion Designer

10-10-2013

Zyra's more than viable mid lane, although one who has greater matchup variance than our more commonly picked mids like Ahri. If Zyra doesn't feel strong there, that's a problem with her design and I'll take full blame.

That being said, these changes were focused on improving her play pattern (as and against) overall. The base damages we reduced will hurt mid Zyra much less than duo lane Zyra. The seed usability improvements will help both mid and bot Zyra feel like they have greater control over their champion. All in all, I don't see 3.13 as hurting mid Zyra much.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
CertainlyT:
The base damages we reduced will hurt mid Zyra much less than mid Zyra.

How does it work


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Firefly Captain

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
CertainlyT:
Zyra's more than viable mid lane, although one who has greater matchup variance than our more commonly picked mids like Ahri. If Zyra doesn't feel strong there, that's a problem with her design and I'll take full blame.

That being said, these changes were focused on improving her play pattern (as and against) overall. The base damages we reduced will hurt mid Zyra much less than mid Zyra. The seed usability improvements will help both mid and bot Zyra feel like they have greater control over their champion. All in all, I don't see 3.13 as hurting mid Zyra much.

I played over 100 games with her mid in season 2. I've played 3 games with her mid in s3, and 26 as a support.
The reason why Zyra isn't strong in mid is because she's too powerful in bot and has been nerfed as a result. It's simply a bad habit of enforcing the meta.

CHAMPION BALANCE SHOULD NOT BE DICTATED BY WHAT ROLE THEY ARE FORCED INTO. It's a sad day when a champion with a design fantasy of annihilating enemies by laying ambushes (seeds) for them in brushes is the one who is expected to brush-check for the rest of their team.

The overarching problem is not whether Zyra should be a mage or a support. The bigger issue is why the role she's played in is dictating her balance.

BUFF SUPPORTS 2013


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Ginga

Recruiter

10-10-2013

Quote:
CertainlyT:
The base damages we reduced will hurt mid Zyra much less than mid Zyra.

Yeah I can't see what you're trying to say...


And overall it sounds rather unconvincing. Unless you're planning on doing some drastic overhauls to compensate for these nerfs, it sounds more like attempts to justify nerfing support Zyra without compensating mid Zyra.



CertainlyT, answer me this. Do you know how crappy it feels to have a balanced champion you love playing her in the INTENDED X-way, nerfed just because everyone else is playing them in Y-way and deems her OP when played Y-way?


If you really can't nerf her Support without angering Mid Zyra, I rather you just rework her kit so that support players won't touch her anymore.


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Gidoru

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
CertainlyT:
Zyra's more than viable mid lane, although one who has greater matchup variance than our more commonly picked mids like Ahri. If Zyra doesn't feel strong there, that's a problem with her design and I'll take full blame.

That being said, these changes were focused on improving her play pattern (as and against) overall. The base damages we reduced will hurt mid Zyra much less than mid Zyra. The seed usability improvements will help both mid and bot Zyra feel like they have greater control over their champion. All in all, I don't see 3.13 as hurting mid Zyra much.



While I am reserving my judgement for when I see actual number changes for her base damage nerfs/ratio increase, it certainly appears on paper as though you are nerfing Zyra as both a support and a mid because ONLY support Zyra is too strong.

You say that the 3.13 changes wont hurt mid Zyra MUCH suggesting that she is indeed being nerfed. This is troubling as she is currently not overpowered/in need of nerfs mid lane.

Furthermore if you're trying to suggest that improving the 'usability' of her seeds somehow balances out the nerfs to her cooldown reduction, range and damage, I cant help but think you're greatly over estimating the impact of this change.


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Firefly Captain

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
Zerglinator:
How does it work

lol I thought you edited that quote for the trollz and then I saw that that's actually what he wrote!


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HigeR

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Go home CertailyT, You're Drunk


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Argodis

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Welp, looks like Zyra is taking the Blitzcrank route. Nerfed until they're no longer viable in the role they were designed for because they are too strong as supports.

But then again, I don't play Zyra mid as much as I use to so I don't really have an accurate opinion on the issue. Mid Zyra will definitely feel those nerfs though.

I always viewed Zyra support as a symptom of traditional supports being too weak in general. I dunno.