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sneak peek for ahri's 3.13 changes

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Avalon Bright

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
TerminalVeloc1ty:
And without landing Charm how much damage would fox fire do then? So you are rewarded for landing charms, are you so angry that you cannot possibly see that you are being rewarded for landing charms?


If you think Ahri wasn't rewarded for landing charms before, I don't know what to tell you. Guess when it's easy to land Q? When they're charmed. Guess when it's actually safe enough to all-in and W? When they're charmed.


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Quintessence

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
oh, btw, for those interested in her damage comparisons to other magic damage mages and/or assassins, here's some really basic comparisons for approximate level 6 damage:



again, the comparisons are super basic so they're just a loose reference. the numbers don't mean anything on their own, but might help out people who aren't familiar with damage levels get a sense of what to expect when they first play against her. sometimes it's easy to lose track of numbers given there are so many being thrown around.


It is so insanely unlikely for Foxfire to hit more than twice...


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Look at that, new Ahri does more damage, just like i've been saying, and people are moaning about her somehow doing less damage.


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Avalon Bright

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
oh, btw, for those interested in her damage comparisons to other magic damage mages and/or assassins, here's some really basic comparisons for approximate level 6 damage:



again, the comparisons are super basic so they're just a loose reference. the numbers don't mean anything on their own, but might help out people who aren't familiar with damage levels get a sense of what to expect when they first play against her. sometimes it's easy to lose track of numbers given there are so many being thrown around.


Why are you conveniently ignoring the fact those numbers are with the EXTREMELY unlikely scenario of every W and R bolt hitting the same target? You're falsely inflating her numbers under fully ideal situations rather than what occurs in 95% of situations just to make your point.


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
Avalon Bright:
If you think Ahri wasn't rewarded for landing charms before, I don't know what to tell you. Guess when it's easy to land Q? When they're charmed. Guess when it's actually safe enough to all-in and W? When they're charmed.


So then you should have no problems then, right?


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
Avalon Bright:
Why are you conveniently ignoring the fact those numbers are with the EXTREMELY unlikely scenario of every W and R bolt hitting the same target? You're falsely inflating her numbers under fully ideal situations rather than what occurs in 95% of situations just to make your point.


I've seen Ahri's (more than just a few times) hit every single ability on the target. If you aren't doing that, then you aren't playing ahri right. ESPECIALLY in the laning phase. Team fights might be a bit more hectic, and not everyone is going to perform the same, but I think you just shot yourself in the foot with this.

My friend plays ahri at an Average level, and is able to combo people effectively using ALL of his abilities to hit the target.


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ricklessabandon

qa analyst

10-10-2013

Quote:
Quintessence:
It is so insanely unlikely for Foxfire to hit more than twice...

if that's true, that just makes the new ahri better by comparison since the newer damage reduction values would be less of a factor. for example, if players generally only ever hit one fox-fire against their intended target, the ahri changes would leave fox-fire at 100% of the damage without charm, and 120% of the damage with charm (a straight buff).


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Rufen

Recruiter

10-10-2013

I don't even know how valid my opinion would be here, as I play ADC Ahri.

I'm just wondering if her Fox-Fire's damage on a single target is being reduced, because AD Ahri actually makes use of Charm and Fox-Fire pretty well. W focuses on whoever she's auto-attacking, and it does a surprisingly good amount of damage early on.
As AD Ahri, I max Charm first as well, so the mana nerf doesn't really seem like a big bad change to me, and as far as I can tell, she might get some extra damage from Charm's damage buff.

I was wondering if maybe her Charm could also increase her auto attack damage as well? I know it's not just AD Ahri that auto attack harasses in lane as well as I play both playstyles. I'm not even sure how AD Ahri is considered within Riot; troll build or just an off-build for her.

Hell, maybe someone could see if the first Orb of her Fox-Fire could be affected by her crit chance, or maybe her W in general? AP Ahri wouldn't benefit from it, just as AD Ahri doesn't benefit from the ap scaling.

EDIT: The Ult duration nerf is still a nerf to AD Ahri, but not so much as in relation to her skill rotation, just her ability to constantly reposition around in teamfights.

AD Ahri wont benefit at all from her new passive either, as it'll scale with AP. Not sure how much this will actually hurt, but the flat Spell Vamp was always nice.


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Foxfire Ahri

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Hello, I am Foxfire Ahri, I have 3k+ games as Ahri, here is my input

Most of these changes I agree with and are healthy for gameplay, however I have a few things to discuss.
First the nerf to W counting as Multi-target instead of single target directly killed/severly hurt a playstyle known as 'Tanky Ahri' where you built tanky AP items such as Rylais, Abyssal, Zhonyas, and added some cdr and lifesteal with things like Morellonomicon and even A spirit of the spectral wraith/wota,this playstyle revolves around kiting, and constantly dishing out spells to whittle down opponents, which is basically a pure mage playstyle. This change has severely crippled that as she doesn't gain as much healing (that is with spellvamp, she should retain most of her in-lane sustain, but I speak about teamfights and duels where you use spellvamp to heal.) and she can't kite as well. Next we go to the next point, the change to the time limit for Spirit Rush, as I have already said 2 times, this playstyle revolves around kiting and spamming your abilities, particularly W, with more time in-between Dashes, we are able to more successfully put down more Damage Per Second. And this also applies to all playstyles, by having a higher(her current) Time Limit, allows Ahri to have a healthy window of play, where she can move around and for example wait for enemy skillshots to be thrown so she can dash them while dishing her own spells out. Did a Malphite just flash ult you and you had the good enough reflexes to Spirit Rush away from it? well it turns out after a few seconds of that happening their (insert squishy champion here) is hanging around at their front line, so you ult back in, throw a charm which hits them, burst them for however much you can do, you have successfully made an engage for your team to follow up. Having the time limit reduced will reduce fluidity, and it will actually not help with sperating good Ahri's from great Ahri's as you will just be forced to use them sooner, however with a higher limit you are able to better space them out as you see them effective and can make better decisions, I just overall disagree with this change.
One last thing, something that will REALLY help differentiate good Ahri's from Great Ahris is: Orb Curving, the art of using Mobility to shape the path of your Orb, so that the true damage part hits, whether it be by Walking, Spirit Rushing, Flashing, or any other way(Thresh lantern?) by doing something such as having the charm's effect interact with Q's true damage will reward Ahri players for hitting the true damage, Orb Curving will help you hit the true damage in many more ocations then just throwing your Q and disregarding its path. Hence directly rewarding great players and differentiating them.

I hope my input is clear please tell me if I could be clearer in anymore aspect, I love Ahri and I will always play her.

EDIT: I forgot, as mentioned by someone Furor boots have very good synergy with Ahri, especially the 'Tanky Ahri' style, another reason to keep w being Single-Target spell.


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Sea Monsters

Recruiter

10-10-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
i currently associate 'multiple rotations within an ult' with ahri's patterns later in the game (once fox-fire is maxed out), but let's keep an eye on this together—i'll be spectating/playing games and taking feedback, you guys play her a bit on the pbe and give feedback. if this hurts a healthy playstyle of ahri's (and i think that her kiting patterns are healthy) then i'm happy to tune/revert this change. :3


Since I cannot participate in the PBE test myself, I would like to add to this particular concern in hopes that someone will be able to provide direct feedback for me.

Given that the charm damage boost is 4 seconds and that her W has a minimum cooldown of 3 seconds (with max CDR) but has a delay between cast time and both the time the spell lands as well as when it goes off cooldown, it seems Ahri players are being forced to choose between either rushing all of her damage or to kite and lose a sizeable portion of damage.