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sneak peek for ahri's 3.13 changes

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Devi Freak Mint

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
i'm actually very, very interested in hearing post-game feedback from ahri players with this playstyle. there are a lot of changes that in summation should keep 'mage ahri' as an effective playstyle, but if i'm off i'll need testimonials from players that have tried it out a few times to help support future iterations.


We want Ahri to work without DFG. We want to be able to play our safe but versatile mage again.


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Avalon Bright

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
Devi Freak Mint:
We want Ahri to work without DFG. We want to be able to play our safe but versatile mage again.


This. I don't want to be locked into DFG/etc/etc just to make her feel like she's usable again. And that's exactly what you did. Again.


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ricklessabandon

qa analyst

10-10-2013

Quote:
FromTXwithLove:
Is that a best-case scenario of Fox-Fire doing 20% less damage? 40% sans Charm? I can understand changes to her ult, but I never felt Fox-Fire was too strong, damage-wise (I did always think that it was broken in being treated as single-target damage). I always liked about Ahri, being able to max W over Q when laning against champs that like to get in your face, It helped her trade with folks like Zed, Kha back in the day, those Lee Sin mids, and that S2 Katarina. Now it looks practically worthless, I dunno about that.

Honestly that's the only change I see any issues with, everything else looks reasonable to me. I actually LIKE the changes to Charm and her passive, that's all honestly pretty cool. The changes to her ult are likely necessary, it's a very powerful ability. But 40% damage off of Fox-Fire seems excessive.


a '3-hit against one guy' fox-fire now does 80% of the old damage without charm, and 96% of the old damage with, so not quite as drastic as 40% but it is noticeable. one cool thing about maxing fox-fire first now is that the healing from essence theft isn't based on spell damage, so you can still get big heals from using orb of deception on a full minion wave even if your primary damage spell is fox-fire. so, the spell lost a bit of its best-case intense pressure damage in exchange for a better healing pattern. i encourage you to try it out and let me know how it plays out. :3


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Cater2mcf

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
Devi Freak Mint:
We want Ahri to work without DFG. We want to be able to play our safe but versatile mage again.


That's right guys, we are sick of the assassin meta, we are sick that our favourite beloved mage is being played as an assassin all the time.
And i'm highly disappointed in the balancing team, telling us what's their problem with Ahri is, then doing the opposite, removing the healthy part, while making the problematic part obligatory.

COME ON GUYS, SAY NO TO ASSASSIN AHRI AND GIVE US BACK OUR MAGE!


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Avalon Bright

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
a '3-hit against one guy' fox-fire now does 80% of the old damage without charm, and 96% of the old damage with


Are you serious? Not only was she not a problem in the first place but you're telling us even if you DO land Charm she isn't back up to original (well, "original&quot damage levels? REALLY, Rickless?


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t4tNoFp4Ve

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
a '3-hit against one guy' fox-fire now does 80% of the old damage without charm, and 96% of the old damage with, so not quite as drastic as 40% but it is noticeable. one cool thing about maxing fox-fire first now is that the healing from essence theft isn't based on spell damage, so you can still get big heals from using orb of deception on a full minion wave even if your primary damage spell is fox-fire. so, the spell lost a bit of its best-case intense pressure damage in exchange for a better healing pattern. i encourage you to try it out and let me know how it plays out. :3


Implying you can land the 3 fires on a single target
You are forgetting that each wisp fires itself based on THEIR current position, which often leads to missing Wisps unless you go HAM straight into all the enemies faces (which leads to a dead Ahri)

So, basically, you charm someone, and you now just lose damage unless you jump into the fray, which we are now forced to do because our kiting potential gets removed (Rylai's nerf) and our repositioning window gets reduced by 3 seconds (Spirit Rush nerf)

And with all of that, you are still not rewarded by landing charm, because the damage output is still nerfed WITH a succesful Charm


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Estred Shantile

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
Devi Freak Mint:
Isn't a 45 base damage *and* 0.3 AP ratio nerf on her ult overkill?

Not really, they are pushing her power to landing Charm and making her ult more about mobility and positioning/chasing. It's a style change not a direct nerf. 20% bonus damage dealt is amazing. So if Charm is on someone that reduced Ult is dealing 20% more damage.

Quote:
Devi Freak Mint:

The Charm buff only affects the front half of Q and Foxfire. And it's not enough to make it break even in damage from live. Its duration also doesn't even cover Ahri's full combo.

I don't think they want her to stay even, overal it's a style change and a slight nerf. Ahri has been dominating games recently to the point some mages are being pushed out unless it's the normal "broken" mages.
* Broken being a term subject to individual opinions for which I will not reveal my own about Mid Lane.

Quote:
Devi Freak Mint:

We want Ahri to move away from DFG. Not to be shackled to it.

Um, they just put the Deathfire passive on her Charm. She doesn't need the item anymore unless she wishes to stack damage boosts. That's not shackling to an item.


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KilljoyX

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
a '3-hit against one guy' fox-fire now does 80% of the old damage without charm, and 96% of the old damage with, so not quite as drastic as 40% but it is noticeable. one cool thing about maxing fox-fire first now is that the healing from essence theft isn't based on spell damage, so you can still get big heals from using orb of deception on a full minion wave even if your primary damage spell is fox-fire. so, the spell lost a bit of its best-case intense pressure damage in exchange for a better healing pattern. i encourage you to try it out and let me know how it plays out. :3


1) With these changes no pro will pick ahri. Her numbers will simply be too low.
2) No reasonable person will max W with these changes, E will do more damage.
3) The ult nerf just feels clunky. Consider changing it to 8 seconds at 6, 9 at 12, and 10 at 16. A small nerf to early game is fine but 7 seconds just means she's one of the worst team fighters in the game. She gets blown up so easily this way.

Disprove of changes and I'm not even very good with her.


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Devi Freak Mint

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
a '3-hit against one guy' fox-fire now does 80% of the old damage without charm, and 96% of the old damage with, so not quite as drastic as 40% but it is noticeable. one cool thing about maxing fox-fire first now is that the healing from essence theft isn't based on spell damage, so you can still get big heals from using orb of deception on a full minion wave even if your primary damage spell is fox-fire. so, the spell lost a bit of its best-case intense pressure damage in exchange for a better healing pattern. i encourage you to try it out and let me know how it plays out. :3


Ahri is NOT an assassin. Please do the math for her damage without DFG then compare her to any assassin with the same amount of gold. Her damage is already mediocre.
Essence Theft still costs a minimum of 180 mana to charge up.
7 sec duration Spirit Rush also means you'll probably waste a charge every time you Zhonya's.


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

10-10-2013

Quote:
Renzokuken:
If you are trying to dive your face into the whole enemy team with your ulti, to get CC'd to death, yes, you "might" deal more damage

But a good Ahri, that knows how to use her ulti to reposition while dealing damage and looking for openings for her skillshots wont deal more damage, so, they are just rewarding going HAM like an idiot, and not skillfull play

Also, they took 40% damage from FoxFire, which could be used 1 or 2 times while Charm was on CD, you are losing more damage there

Also, they took Rylai's from Foxfire, which hurts her kiting potential by A LOT, so, they are favoritizing DFG and going HAM like an idiot, even more

Do you even play ahri?, anyone that plays Ahri knows that the change to Charm is not good if it goes with ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL those nerfs
No I don't play Ahri, but I play against her and with her enough to know that the direction of these changes are great. Land Charm? Do big damage. Don't land charm? You do damage, just not big damage.

If you're good with the champion, you'll prevail, but if you're just trying to hang on to a crutch with her, then you're probably not going to like these changes.

The entire reason why Riot's coming out with this now on the PBE is so they can get your feedback. Not your Pre-whining without you actually trying her out. No way you could of tried her out with all this whining you're putting out.

Make no mistake. This is a nerf. It's supposed to be in some form. But since you claim to play ahri a lot, you can go test her out, and see if she's been nerfed too badly, give direction and focus, and not being *****y about the changes before you test them out.