Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Heimerdinger rework on PBE today

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

qnz

Junior Member

10-17-2013

Because Heimer is a turret focused champion, I feel like we should be able to set the turret priorities, like in tower defense games. In TD games, you can set towers to attack the nearest enemy, farthest enemy, flying enemies, or lowest health, etc. If we can set turret AI to attack champions only, or creeps only, or Normal AI, it could add a new dimension to his game.

I haven't played the reworked Heimer on PBE, but his current turret AI still is flaky.

Sometimes I am in melee range of a enemy (in order to land a stun reliably), I plop down a turret, and pick a fight with the enemy, only to see my turret shooting at a minion while I am going toe to toe with an enemy right next to my turret.

Another example would be I am trying to kite and turn on my ulti as I run past my turret. The turret does not choose to slow the champion and instead continues to shoot at creeps.

This occurs less, but sometimes my turrets do not shoot at all.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-17-2013

I think a good possibility for a passive would be to give his turrets some kind of Attack Speed boost when he is lower on health. Maybe something scaling, like:

turrets gain x% attack speed for each y% missing health

or even just a flat

turrets gain x% attack speed when Heimer goes below y% health

Not only would this feel like it is keeping his old AS boost in some aspect, this fits your criteria I think, and would definitely help him recover when he messes up.

This way, if Heimer is getting pushed or zoned and taking poke, his turrets help zone and push back a little better by themselves to compensate, and begin to protect him a little more vigorously. I think it makes sense, since if he is hurt, he will be hanging back more behind his turrets and not be able to fight and get into good attack range himself to use his other abilities quite as well.

I'm not sure if something like that would be too powerful, but I think the numbers could be worked out so it's okay. Maybe you could put a time limit on the AS boost like making it only last a few seconds after he gets hurt if it's too much to have them always get the boost when he is low.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DeliciousOctorok

Junior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
EnderDDT:
This idea has been addressed. The answer was that this would force people into a "tankerdinger" build in order to have worthwhile turrets, especially since the defenses would have to be built around the expectation of this happening. This reduces Heimer's build routes and goes against the very core of the character to force people into doing this, not to mention the fact that it would make everything not "turret" on him suck.


If people don't want their rockets to suck then they should just build glass cannon. I don't think having his turrets share his resistances would force people to go tanky at all. They could still have a choice. Also, I don't think his rockets and grenades would be useless in the slightest if he goes tanky. His rockets can hit pretty hard with spell pen, and his grenade is used for cc so it doesn't need power. I mean, at this point it seems that Heimers turrets will get destroyed against aoe comps. They just don't have enough health to survive a lot of damage. Now, I could be wrong since the turret's resistances were just buffed.

Imo I think there's already enough bursty mages in the game and it seems like the direction people want to go in for Heimer is a bursty mage. I've always seen him as a high sustain mage with low mobility. I've always seen him as a dps mage more than an assassin. If you build tanky, then there would be no need for power since his turrets would be surviving throughout teamfights constantly damaging everyone, and his rockets would still be effective just because damage is damage. Giving Heimer the opportunity to build tanky would bring out the utility in his kit and would serve huge benefits for the team other than just being a bursty mage.

I don't want people to be forced to choose either a tanky Heimer or a glass cannon Heimer. I want people to have the opportunity to choose either one and wreck face with whichever one they pick. I don't see how having his turrets share his resistances and health would make one build more op than the other given the right amount of ratios and testing. I personally like the idea of a tanky Heimer since it would be something new for the game. I shouldn't be forced to play glass cannon Heimer and other people shouldn't be forced to play tanky Heimer. Heimer's mechanics should allow us to go either way and still be viable.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-17-2013

GUYS KEEP IN MIND THAT THE PASSIVE NEEDS TO IN SOME WAY ALLOW AN EFFECTIVE SUPPORT DINGER!!!!

(over half of the ideas i see posted do not allow support dinger and faux said he wants an affective support dinger + helps heimer when hes behind)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-17-2013

heimer could have a little mechanic robot with him that has 2 blowtorches and he could wear one of those welding masks. if a friendly champ is around that is under 50% health he flips his welding visor down and repairs them regenerating there health and giving them mana with his blowtorch till they reach 100% health he then will flip up the visor and be in attack mode where he runs up to enemies and tries to dismantle them dealing damage of course, but will go back into repair mode once an freindly nearby champ drops below 50%. (this idea may not be the most effective passive but idc really, i just think itd be cool to have heimer have a little robot that helps him for his passive cause thats bad A**. idc what the passive is i thought this one was ok all i know is that if i was heimerdinger id build me a robot, wouldnt you?)

- the robot can be strictly repair i dont really care, but heimer does need a robot! idc what it does


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BobOfGoo

Senior Member

10-17-2013

I played the new Heimer on PBE few days ago, I like most of his skill change, including his ulti. But, one thing that has been on the back of my mind has been the turrets (sorry if this seem like a repose, there is too much to read in this thread, I'll try to go back and read them after this). As a Heimer player/fan since release, I felt that in most reworks, his kit brings a good mesh to his comp.

The original 6 turret, good for poke, scout. You can split turrets 4/2 or 3/3 and have them draw enemy attention.

The 3/2 turrets can do that less well, but with the new ulti slow proc. You are able to kite enemies in between your turrets. I felt that was quite an unique way of playing him. On top of that you can use your rocket to poke and grenade to cc (not a really good form of cc regardless).

Now the new turret. I don't feel an interactive play with his turret with his current rework on PBE. All I had to do was just spam drop turrets, and hopefully the AI will do what I want it to do. I felt the emphasis of the turret has been swapped to his other skills.

I might been using Heimer differently, but that's my feedback on the new turrets of the Heimer rework.

Thank you, and have a nice day


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS1afbeddeafc68f3008b9f

Junior Member

10-17-2013

since Heimer is a master of technician, there is one thing he should be really doing...
Shorten the cool downs of his and ally's trinket like for 5%-10%.

This is not a very strong ability that will change the tides but it makes sure that your CD's are always shouter than the other team.

This ability can be an aura, if not global.

--or

Fortify
Heimer collect the material form dead minions(drop by rate like Thresh's soul.) and fortify his turrets . For XX numbers of the material he collects, grants hp for his turrets


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bruticus44

Member

10-17-2013

In terms of Heimer Bugs. Has the problem when placing a turret between the inhibitor and the tower been pointed out before? I noticed that after the tower went down, the turret took a good at least 10 seconds to then start attacking the inhibitor, it just sat there until I placed a second turret.

Also, I noticed that when I play against another Heimer, the turrets change colors. Do they turn red to indicate that you are being targeted? It's kind of confusing.

Quote:
Vuoripeikko:
The biggest gripe me and my friends have about the passive is that it's not visible enough. Add small healer robots who scamper around Heimerdinger and those targets he's currently healing and I'm visually pleased.


Yeah, I think that something like this allows Heimer to keep his passive, and adds a visual effect that shows people they are getting healed. All of which becomes visually gratifying. The main problem is then, that it adds to the clutter in chaotic situations. Otherwise he could have a visual aura that he emits like aura items have, though they aren't that noticeable either.

I always thought that it is weird that the aura indicator boxes that appear, don't actually say HOW much extra regen you are getting. It just says "you are getting extra health regen."


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
ilolzatpiranhas:
GUYS KEEP IN MIND THAT THE PASSIVE NEEDS TO IN SOME WAY ALLOW AN EFFECTIVE SUPPORT DINGER!!!!

(over half of the ideas i see posted do not allow support dinger and faux said he wants an affective support dinger + helps heimer when hes behind)


In that case, how about something like this...

When one of his turrets (maybe only if it is active) is destroyed, all his cooldowns are lowered by some amount (1s or something like that...)

This would work both as support and mid, by letting him have more options against champs that are quickly blowing away his turrets or when he places one badly and it gets destroyed quickly... Might need to make it only activate if it is destroyed by an enemy champ to stop him from using minions to abuse it, though. With this, he will get a little extra oomph against people pushing back a lot or eliminating his turret-wards when he is there trying to stay in lane by them, because he will end up having faster access to his other abilities and can get a new turret kit sooner if enemies are aggressively destroying them, pushing his lane back too far, or beating him at positioning.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Another possibility along those lines emphasizing his aoe healing aspect a little more...

Keep something like his current passive, make the constant healing a little less, but when someone destroys an active turret, the passive instantly heals him and any champs or turrets around him in aura range for a certain amount, or adds a stacking temporary shield on him and champs or turrets in aura range for a certain amount, or even just temporarily increases his regen aura by a certain amount, stacking with itself...

My idea is that he has nanobots working around him helping him to control the turrets and keep them active, and when a turret gets destroyed they get to return to him and do something else. I think it fits his theme really well.

This all could scale alongside the aura. For example if the aura is 10hp5 at that level, maybe the heal/shield in aura range when a turret is destroyed could be 20, or destroying a turret would add an additional 20hp5 for a few seconds to his aura, stacking with itself where the duration overlaps... something like that...

I really like this idea though... This way, if people quickly blow away all his turrets when he has 3 nearby, his healing aura can temporarily increase drastically by up to 30hp5, or he and anyone in aura range can get up to 60 healing quickly... obviously the numbers can be tweaked until it feels right. I think this idea would be interesting and feel impactful, and help him while he is behind as both mid and support, while not taking concentration on his part, and allow counterplay as well by the enemies, since they can decide not to destroy them all to lessen the effect, or to space out destroying multiple turrets so that the effects don't stack too high.