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Heimerdinger rework on PBE today

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Belharion

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
Indeed!

The challenge is thus: Hit these points below as well or better than the current passive. I should also point out that this is according to my own completely biased judgment, but that I'm very strongly motivated on this front. Difficulty of implementation is not a concern, I can throw my hours at this until it's solved.

Bear in mind also that this is more of a 'bonus objective' as far as Heimer is concerned. Gameplay-wise the current passive does good work, it's more about making it feel cooler.

So with that out of the way, here's the goals!
  • Low mindshare cost: Heimerdinger already has a huge amount to pay attention to, the passive should 'just work' without him having to babysit it
  • Low power budget: Heimerdinger's identity is strongly tied to his turrets and active skills, weakening them for a passive is (probably) a poor trade
  • More awesome than current: Self-explanatory
  • Good for recovering from mistakes: I'd prefer passives with a gameplay goal of this type, but I'm open to other options here


So let's look at Heimerdinger as a character... he's a crazy smart mechanic that can apparently make turrets out of nowhere.

Maybe something can be done with CDR as a scaling-power thing... Since the CDR was taken off of his ultimate and is now harder to itemize for, why not give him an extra power incentive to build CDR?

Something like this...

Passive: Assembly line - Heimerdinger creates better, stronger weapons giving him bonus AP for the amount of CDR he gets. Something like (1/1.5/2) AP per 1% CDR or more as the case may be.

EDIT: This doesn't quite cover goals two and four, but I believe it covers the other two quite nicely.


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Ctraynor

Junior Member

10-16-2013

Is there any way that the turret shutdown range could "link" between turrets?

For example, lets say turrets shut down at 1000 range away from Heimerdinger. However, if a turret were within 500 range of an active turret, it would also stay active.

This would allow Heimerdinger to have an effective turret range of 2000, but only allow him to cluster turrets within 1000 range. It would also add some more strategy to turret placement. It might give Heimerdinger overpowering map control of the immediate area if the range is too large, though.


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ToneMapode

Member

10-16-2013

  • Low mindshare cost: Heimerdinger already has a huge amount to pay attention to, the passive should 'just work' without him having to babysit it
  • Low power budget: Heimerdinger's identity is strongly tied to his turrets and active skills, weakening them for a passive is (probably) a poor trade
  • More awesome than current: Self-explanatory
  • Good for recovering from mistakes: I'd prefer passives with a gameplay goal of this type, but I'm open to other options here
[/QUOTE]


What about Heimer's passive as:

Heimer & all of his allies receive X bonus movement speed while they are in X radius of one of his turrets.

This would further Heimers ability of kiting/escaping, as he is a low mobility champion in a meta filled with pick comps and assassins.


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Vladmir the Hand

Member

10-16-2013

Emergency Repair Bots: same HP/5 aura as current passive, but with scaling x% improved effect the lower his current life.

+: simple, meets criteria outlined, more impactful in crisis situations.
-: still kind of basic/boring

Au-replicating Repair Bots: HP/5 aura that improves as heimer earns more gold.

+: more interesting/unique, nerdy (Au= gold), creates more defined play situations.
-: more complicated, less useful for coming from behind, potentially requires map-specific balancing.


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Dooder Dooder

Recruiter

10-16-2013

What if Heimer's HP/5 aura passive was also given to the turrets he creates, and the auras could stack? Well-placed turrets would then increase their own survivability by healing each other, and you can work with the support aspect by creating healing nests for mistake recovery.

You can play with the aura magnitude/range for balancing.


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Bruticus44

Member

10-16-2013

Two thoughts: Overall and Support Heimer-

First, I want to mention that overall I really like the changes and improvements you made to Heimer. As far as I am concerned the kit is fun and an improvement. Second I am in agreement with others that the tether range on the turrets could be made a bit larger. What is their range actually?

As for Support Heimer, I really like the improvements. I have tried supporting with the old Heimer and he just didn't have enough impact on the game to warrant him being a support. Now, he has a much better grenade, faster and a slow, and even more free wards, along with an ult that actually doesn't rely on having turrets out.

In terms of abilities I max first, it usually goes Ult>Turrets>Grenade>Rockets.

I max Turrets because having the extra turret storage capacity and lower cooldowns make a huge difference in being able to keep at least a few turrets up at all times. Although the damage potential with rockets is there, I can't see myself maxing them before grenades. I find cooldowns to be a big factor for Heimer and I would rather max grenades and reduce the cooldown since rockets just always have a flat CD no matter what level.

I REALLY like that you buffed the passive to 30hp per 5 seconds. It makes Auradinger an absolute power house. Why yes, I will buy both aura regen items and will supply all allies and minions 10hp per second, which is the equivalent of your entire team constantly using healthpots whenever you're by them. (Hope the items or Heimer don't get nerfed because I said this :O)

The hit confirmed sound is nice, now that I know what it is, as long as the final soundbite you use sounds satisfying.

In terms of overall power, I agree that there is not much anyone can do until he hits the live servers and gets played against and with for a while. Heimer has traditionally been a champion that does really really well if your opponent doesn't now how to play against you. Considering the new learning curve it will take to counter-play him, I believe there will be a huge cry to nerf him once he is released. However, we won't really know until the data comes in.

(P.S. I have only tested Heimer while being afflicted by the no masteries bug. So it may have skewed some of my observations. Hope the fix comes soon, and thanks for your time.)


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Ranik Ortega

Member

10-16-2013

I still like the earlier idea of DoT bubble Heimer. Just make his passive work in two ways.

IF no enemy is detected It regens as usual.

IF an enemy champion is detected it switches to a DoT bubble.

Low mindshare = Check

Low power budget = Check

More awesome than current = Check

Good for recovering from mistakes = Double check. (If you are getting wrecked it slightly helps fend them off, if you survive it helps you recover.)

It would look something like this.



Passive: Techmaturgical Repair Bots

Heimerdinger gives nearby allied champions and H-28G Evolution Turrets bonus health regeneration per 5 seconds.

10/15/20/25/30 Hp5 Range:800

----------------

If an enemy approaches Heimerdinger, Heimerdinger's Techmaturgical repair bots swarm and disassemble enemy champions dealing magic damage.

3/6/10/15/20 DPS Range:250


It's not a game changer. It gives him flexibility, some ability to discourage people in knife fighting range, interesting build options for both team regen or enemy DoT.


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Aight i have two passive ideas here:
FIRST PASSIVE IDEA:

Techmaturgical repair bots/techmaturgical destruction bots:

Basic idea: keep same passive while alive.
Second part (destruction bots) When heimer dies, the nano bots stored inside his body and turrets disperse forming a pool a nano bots (around where heimer died and around where each turret died) that deal X damage per second. Additionally sticks to targets that walk over the area for X seconds dealing X damage per second.
----------------------------------------------------------------
SECOND PASSIVE IDEA

Techmaturgical overdrive: Heimerdingers repair bots/nano bots are nothing short of amazing/a masterpiece. As so, when heimerdinger dies his repair bots go into overdrive mode sustaining heimerdinger and keeping him alive for X more seconds.
(this can work with his turrets maybe too? with the turrets staying alive after heimers death and all)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
So, yea i like the first idea and i feel that one may be more well received since it even allows for keeping his passive that he has now.
The second one is a bit off the deep end, but hey we gotta venture everywhere we can think of for a passive idea for him.

Lemme know what you think everyone


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SvartbenUS

Junior Member

10-16-2013

Well, since he's an inventor I guess you could make his passive into a heal/repair bot with a propeller that flies around healing stuff. That would be much cooler than a static passive that you barely notice. It could be made in different ways, so I'm gonna make a couple of examples.

1. A healing bot flies around close to Heimerdinger, healing nearby champions/turrets that haven't recieved any damage within X seconds (kinda like Garen's passive) and flees when the target is starting to take damage. The repair bot is untargetable. The reason for the Garen-thingie is that the robot has to take cower from enemies, since it can't defend itself. It could be called "The Cowardly Bot"

2. Whenever Heimerdinger has cast X spells, he summons a healing bot which heals nearby friendly units. The bot is targetable. This would work kind of like Malzahar's passive. This could be a little odd when casting three turrets in a row, but heck, I don't know.

The repair bot could possibly be UPGRADE!!!'d, so that for example it would become "The Courageous Bot" and not need to back off or something.

Also, keep in mind I was writing this on a phone so there could be some typos :P


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Shumabot

Junior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
Ooo, I'll need to think about this but at first blush I quite like it. It doesn't do as well when Heimer is behind, but it's more appreciable and kinda cool.



I don't know if this has been suggested before, but if we're looking for a passive that feels interactive and utilizes the theme of repair, while enabling the gameplay of 'turret bases' I think this could work.

What if Heimers heal passive remained the same on Heimer himself, but was dramatically increased in power and dramatically lowered in range for allies (think melee range)? Thus a Heimer could consistently move into Melee range with his turrets or lane partner to heal them. This would create a play state of "checking up" on other elements in your lane (turrets/champions) to keep them "repaired". Counterplay to what would otherwise sound very powerful comes from the danger from AOE's hitting both champions, or the consistent demand that Heimer move "to the front line" of his turrets to upkeep them.

I think this would be a very fun and interactive aspect of play, though perhaps it would overload the mental budget of the player as well. I think it would benefit a support heimer more than a mid lane, as a support heimer is going to have a much smaller number of moment to moment considerations and would benefit more by the passive anyway.