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Heimerdinger rework on PBE today

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jamoecw

Member

10-15-2013

Quote:
Aerophobia:
these "within area" things don't make sense. He already is REQUIRED to stay in the area or else his turrets shut down. Not in the area? His turrets shut down and his passive doesn't matter anyway.


but if the passive still works while the turrets are shut down and works on allied champs, then it can be a good thing for team fights after you have been dived on (and killed). it would be a better passive if it affected enemies (decrease enemy speed). but basing everything around turrets has its downside (kill them easy and 2 abilities are in the can).

a fair amount of ideas of been thrown out there for passives in the past 50 or so pages, i doubt 20th has seen them all and forum searches are pretty poor right now. and as for anything that has to do with turrets, they are bugged right now, so we have to guess at how they will be when fixed (i for one feel their charge up time is way too high, especially on the ult, which only gets one shot, though maybe they will be tanky enough to compensate for this, doubtful though).


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ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-15-2013

Quote:

since heimy wont be getting a visual update on release could you maybe possibly pull some strings and get snowmerdinger to come back upon release of the new dinger? (i know someone is gonna tell me to shut up and that i only want the skin cause its super rare blah blah blah... thats not true i just really think that the skin is pure awesomeness and i cant help that i wasnt a member when that was available) i noticed there bringing back alot of the legacy skins and snowmerdinger wasnt on there :/ anything at all you can do for us faux?


i wish...


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

10-16-2013

turrets getting one shotted by ezreal Q's. Healing through all my E and W damage like its nothing.

I'm done, I can't play this on the PBE its just making me depressed.

Like physically depressed after every game i play. I play one and then sit here and stare at my screen for forever and not play anything the rest of the night.


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-16-2013

I still think the cooldowns vs power of his abilities are a bit off... it's all well and good to say, well he lost the cdr, because now his ult has damage numbers, and it IS true, the cdr was just there as a stopgap measure to make sure he was weaker early... but you increased the BASE cooldown of his skills too, when they really are not more powerful by themselves, except potentially the turret damage with the beams, but a LOT of other things about the turrets were nerfed too to make up for the beams.

The rockets are shorter ranged, and a skillshot, and do less total damage than live, AND do less damage to each target than live any time they hit more than one enemy, AND have a longer cooldown. It might be just me, but it seems that just making them a skillshot should have let them have either more total power or a shorter cd... not just conditionally slightly more single target burst with a shorter range, less aoe damage, and a LONGER cd...

The grenade has less base damage, and affects really a much smaller area, seems like the range is decreased too, AND has a much longer base cooldown... Sure that all was in exchange for swapping the blind for a slow and increasing the speed... I could be wrong, but it still seems to me that a little more was taken away than was given... even if the slow does synergize well with his other stuff.

The turrets have less health AND a LOT less armor all game, and only slightly more MR by end game than his current ones. Their total auto attacks with all 3 combined is weaker than that of the 2 old turrets, and that's not even COUNTING the AS increase the old ones got. The beams might make up for losing that huge AS increase, since they are each about equivalent to getting hit by 2.5 of his old turret attacks when they shoot, but they miss too... I'm still not sure as a skill the new turrets are strictly better than his old ones, because losing so much attack power in most circumstances already makes up for having 3 max, especially when you consider it's not nearly as easy or likely to have 3 set up in a fight area as it is to have 2 most of the time. Yes, they ARE easier to place than his old ones, longer placement range and shorter kit cooldown, and can potentially hit from further away... BUT, they also lost their evolved abilities and have a short tether that not only deactivates them, but practically shouts Heimer's position to enemies at all times (seriously, at least get rid of enemies seeing the deactivation timer, it feels really bad...)

It just seems to me that none of the abilities are strictly stronger than any of his old ones, except the ult, yet most have increased cooldowns (greatly increased in the case of grenade). The ult is much stronger than his old one yes, and it having damage numbers is good, but as you said, he paid for that by losing his CDR... Where is all this extra power that made his abilities have longer cooldowns by themselves too? And, if the goal was to also increase his power overall, where is all the extra power above the amount needed to make up for the longer cooldowns? Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not quite seeing it...

This is not to say I hate the rework... Quite the opposite, I really like the kit, and I feel the ability concepts do fit him and his style well while fixing a lot of the gameplay issues that have been plaguing him for years... but I feel that right now the power balance is still a bit off considering the long base cooldowns... seems to me either the cooldowns still need to be tweaked down a little somewhere or the power tweaked up a little somewhere...


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SSj Heimerdinger

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
Live Heimerdinger's numbers are not a factor in determining the power of the rework. The post of mine you're replying to is itself a reply to another post--one of the dangers of maintaining such a long thread xD

Following up on the passive ideas, I still think making it so heimer has a switch passive, one that acts like an small ignite when heimer goes offensive and one where it heals heimer and his turrets/towers when going defensive.

Something like : If heimer is going passive and does not attack an enemy champion for a 5 seconds, everything around him gains a % of their max health per x seconds.
And if he does attack an enemy with rockets/grenades, he deals damage to them as a % of max health per y seconds, this will allow you to add the nano bots and at the same time solve heimers problem with finishing enemies off AND help him deal damage against tanks. It will also allow for healthy exchange as if enemy decides to go aggressive, he loses his heal which leaves poke mages more of a chance to pressure him during that cool down time.


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TFU42

Junior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
these "within area" things don't make sense. He already is REQUIRED to stay in the area or else his turrets shut down. Not in the area? His turrets shut down and his passive doesn't matter anyway.


The turret shut down after 8 seconds so if you have a champ try to dive you instead of just running away, which lets face it I love Heimy as much as everyone but he's no escape artist, instead of running he stays in the range of turrets maybe even lays another one down and kites the players dogding skill shots and peeling with his increased speed. I am not saying it is perfect or game changing but isn't that what they are looking for a small passive that will allow skilled players to have an advantage.


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TFU42

Junior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
ilolzatpiranhas:
i wish...


Speaking of skins what about an steindinger make him have einstein's hair and maybe even have his tounge stick out at the end of his joke or something.


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Vladmir the Hand

Member

10-16-2013

Idea for passive rework.

Au-Replicating Repair Bots: All nearby allied units again a Health regen bonus equal to a % of heimer's gold income. (A 100% ratio would mean 1 gold earned = 1 hp gained)

Reasoning: A unique but non-complicated passive which creates opportunities for strategic play and decision making.

Impact: The passive (with a 100% ratio, but this could be tweaked) would heal 8hp/5 with static gold income, but this would be boosted whenever minions are cleared or heimer's scores a kill/assist. Average gold/5 for most games including minion/player kills would average 20-30hp/5.

*If an enemy minion wave piles up, sending heimer's to clear it could provide an impactful regen boost to nearby players and/or turrets.
*Heimer's passive now supports active engagement; it has more impact scoring kills or pushing waves.
*Creates interesting new possible GP/5 build options?
*Creates team-decisions on whether it's best to let Heimer or ADC get kills/farm in different situations.

Science! "Au" is the periodic table symbol for gold.


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Dooder Dooder

Recruiter

10-16-2013

What if you did something with his passive that increases the range of his turrets the closer he is to them? Maybe you could get up to Cait range by standing right next to one. The counter-play is that it puts Heimer closer to danger instead of hanging back a safe distance.


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TOOfunkedUP

Junior Member

10-16-2013

So, here is my idea for a new passive for Donger.

Passive: Techmaturgical Repair Bots (TRB for short)

-Every (### seconds OR ### spell casts) Heimerdinger gains a stack of TRB up to a maximum of ###

-If Heimerdinger casts a spell while allied champions are nearby, one stack of TRB
is consumed to grant the nearest allied champion (### + (### * Champion Level)) HP/5
for the next ### seconds

To compensate for the loss of his old passive, choose one of the below options

-Heimerdinger also gains (### * Number of stacks of TRB) HP/5

OR

-Increase Heimerdinger's base HP/5

OR

-Put all of the power budget from the old passive into this one



I think this passive has more gameplay and counterplay than his current one, as well as lots of ways it can be tweaked and balanced. It also allows for Heimerdinger to make plays. Imagine this: Donger notices a fight in top lane. He quickly roams to his allies lane, flashes to get in range for his passive, and drops a turret to grant his teammate enough health to survive the last tick of a bleed/ignite.

I think the range on the passive would have to be fairly short(150-250?) so Heimer could control when he uses his stacks. The basic idea behind the whole passive is that if Heimer sees an ally low on HP he could stand right next to them and cast a spell to give them a quick boost, or as I said before save them from a ticking DoT spell.

I will admit that if you are using TRB stacks as soon as they come up, this passive isn't much different from Heimer's current one. However, clever Heimers could make good use of this passive to turn fights. As a support, Heimer could save up a few stacks and then, when there is a fight, stand next to the ADC/Marksman and use all of his spells in quick succession to grant an unexpected health boost that could swing the fight. Sorta like a mini Volibear passive that you could use on teammates.

Lastly, I think this passive would give Heimer players one more thing to think about positioning wise. This would...separate the good Heimers from the great Heimers...more so than currently, that is.

Anyways, I could talk about more hypothetical situations but I think you get the idea by now. Would love to hear thoughts on this