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Heimerdinger rework on PBE today

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jamoecw

Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
Aerophobia:
but then you would need 3 diff icons on your screen and you'd have to compare times between the 3..unless it just said 1st 2nd and 3rd ot something like that.

I think if i hover over my spell it should show which one has been there the longest and such. Something like that.


or you could rotate the color of the turrets, yellow, green, red, rinse and repeat. you'd never have two yellows (as that would be the one that would decommission itself when you drop another yellow), the ult one is super sized, so you can tell that one apart no matter the color.


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
jamoecw:
or you could rotate the color of the turrets, yellow, green, red, rinse and repeat. you'd never have two yellows (as that would be the one that would decommission itself when you drop another yellow), the ult one is super sized, so you can tell that one apart no matter the color.


Or the ult one could be purple or blue or hot pink... or best of all the choices, plaid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP6DXoNKITc


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jamoecw

Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
I like that type of thing in principle, but the rest of Heimerdinger's kit is currently sitting on all of his available mindshare budget and power budget.

The goals for a passive replacement, and they're pretty tough ones, are 'low power + low attention required + is awesome'. This hits awesome and low power, but requires a great deal of Heimer's attention. Normally a good thing! But, in this case, it distracts from playing the turret/rocket/grenade game, which is much more core to the Heimerdinger experience. I quite like this passive idea on its own, but when combined into the kit it incurs some tradeoffs.

Ideally, I'd love a passive that isn't flashy, but is efficient and does good work for the Dinger when his lane isn't going well and he's playing from the back foot.



how about dealing magic damage to his turrets heals nearby champs for a portion of damage taken, and like wise if a champ is dealt magic damage in that radius the turrets heal for a portion of damage taken. in team fights a big AoE spell that kills everything would be mitigated if in a turret nest. this would help team fight presence a tad in addition to laning when his turrets and/or himself gets poked a lot. against adcs and champs that focus either turrets or heimi this would be useless though, and thus can't be OP (which should give decent margin for error in working the numbers).


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ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-12-2013

I take back what I said earlier idc if the rework is released 100 percent exactly as it is in pbe right now its pretty awesome even if the turret skillshot is unreliable the cooldown of the grenade is on longer cooldown than the turrets powershot chances are youll have it most of the time when the turrets powershot is ready it doesn't need to be buffed if we really want the new heimers turret skillshot to land we can slow them down with the nade everything is awesome faux I love it. build an athenas unholy grail and this new heimer is perfect!


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
ilolzatpiranhas:
I like everything about the new kit I like the idea of more skill needed but better pay off

im just slightly worried about the powershot ai other then that I think it is perfect it might take some getting used to I just know that once mastered he will be better over all

the only reason im worried about the turret skillshot is because a skillshot is meant for people that have skill the better you get the better chance you have to land it an ai on the other hand cant gain skill... I almost think it would still be fair if the powershot and turrets kept the power there at and the powershot was not dodgeable because even tho we get three turrets now they are more squishy shoot slower and hit weaker and if you can tank a powershot you have like 9 seconds to destroy the turret which isn't that hard turrets fall to one or two attacks a lot of the time. I know there worried about counterplay and all but trust me his turrets having a powershot that cant miss(unless it fires and you get out of range) every 9 seconds.... it gives you plenty of time to destroy it id call that counterplay.

if they cant buff the turrets powershot in any way then atleast make the cooldown of the grenade shorter then the cooldown of the powershot and lessen the mana cost a small amount than you could always have a chance to stun or slow when the turret is ready to fire the big bolt again going with the more skill higher pay off thing which I like


One thing that really really annoys me is that the turret deactivation timer shows to the enemy and they can see exactly when you enter and leave deactivation range...

I mean they already can see when a turret is active and not active, which reveals some information about his whereabouts already.

But this... It shows them when you are in a certain (pretty small) range and exactly when you move in and out of that range, practically shouting to enemies when you are in a nearby bush, or when you approach from somewhere just out of sight. In a lot of cases, just the timer appearing/disappearing can literally tell the enemy EXACTLY where you are even if you are out of sight. With this feature, the turrets might as well just have a giant arrow pointing at heimer's position...

I can understand giving enemies some counterplay, but seriously... screaming to the enemy 'HE'S IN THAT BUSH!!!' or 'HE'S RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER!!' is a bit much... does he NEED a bell around his neck?


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ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-12-2013

watchin some youtube footage this new heimer is a keeper
(CURIOUS ON WHATS TO HAPPEN TO THE PASSIVE THO)


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

10-12-2013

A few more things to say here.

Can we take 70% of the damage or more thats on the power beam shot thing, put it back into the turrets AA shots and make the power beam have a FAR lower CD.

If not you may as well remove them. Theres no reason to have power tied up in these crappy things when 50% or more of them either 1. Get sidestepped easily (i've seen MINIONS sidestep it. obviously not on purpose but it still happened) 2. turrets waste the shot on minions or some random ****
AND theres no reason to even buy rylais or anything (rylais even being the best option for it to proc still not worth) when all im getting is 35% slow every 24 seconds since half of the damn things miss and the cd on it is 12 seconds. I don't know why my power should be tied up in this when its plain usless to have things proc on it. Its 100% wasted.

I can't pick up kills with my W anymore since people can just facetank the damage for important people. if people are on the run my rockets are shorter range and tankier people can facetank the damage on rockets since its not targeted anymore. His W is shorter range and gets face tanked by a teams front line completely.

My general complaint for this rework is i can't do any damage to anyone important anymore. I can't fight tanks without the shred on my turrets anymore. My rockets get face tanked by enemy front lines. My E already does ****ty damage with a bad ratio but its the only thing i can hit anyone important with. My E that used to be able to shut down damage from bruisers and enemy adc's is now close to worthless in a teamfight. And my turrets fall over from random AoE or 1 AA.


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ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-12-2013

I think what there going for is that you have to constantly use your utility to make heimer effective so that no one can cry about no counterplay and they can have no possible justification to ever nerf him again if a anything future small buffs. I know the powerbolt seems unreliable but its really not! (aside from it being able to attack minions that needs to go away) I watrched a guy was constantly landing his grenade and the slow made the powershot land almost everytime! (the cooldown of the nade is only like two seconds longer than the powerbolts) as long as the powerbolt isn't wasted on a minion chances are youll have your grenade ready when the turret is charged up land the slow and place the turrets right and you can land the powershot a majority of the time I know it will take ALOT of getting used to having to actually work with your turrets as a team but if you can do that this heimer is stronger ive seen it! in the hands of a pro.... heimer might see more tournament play I love this new heimer im ready for his release


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
Aerophobia:
A few more things to say here.

Can we take 70% of the damage or more thats on the power beam shot thing, put it back into the turrets AA shots and make the power beam have a FAR lower CD.

If not you may as well remove them. Theres no reason to have power tied up in these crappy things when 50% or more of them either 1. Get sidestepped easily (i've seen MINIONS sidestep it. obviously not on purpose but it still happened) 2. turrets waste the shot on minions or some random ****
AND theres no reason to even buy rylais or anything (rylais even being the best option for it to proc still not worth) when all im getting is 35% slow every 24 seconds since half of the damn things miss and the cd on it is 12 seconds. I don't know why my power should be tied up in this when its plain usless to have things proc on it. Its 100% wasted.

I can't pick up kills with my W anymore since people can just facetank the damage for important people. if people are on the run my rockets are shorter range and tankier people can facetank the damage on rockets since its not targeted anymore. His W is shorter range and gets face tanked by a teams front line completely.

My general complaint for this rework is i can't do any damage to anyone important anymore. I can't fight tanks without the shred on my turrets anymore. My rockets get face tanked by enemy front lines. My E already does ****ty damage with a bad ratio but its the only thing i can hit anyone important with. My E that used to be able to shut down damage from bruisers and enemy adc's is now close to worthless in a teamfight. And my turrets fall over from random AoE or 1 AA.


you realize that if someone lets themselves keep getting hit by turrets for 6 straight seconds, that they only have about 10 reduction after all that time? If a person is getting hit more than 2 or 3 times by turrets with his current kit they are already probably doing something wrong... so really, you are lucky for it to ever even got to 5 shred... I don't know what tanks you fight that let both your turrets hit them for 10 seconds or more so you can actually notice the shred on them... and if you can't ever do anything past the enemy front lines just because enemies can stand in front of them when the missile speed is that fast, then I guess every line skillshot in the game is totally useless too...

I CAN see how they are worse at chasing in some cases... you can pick up those kills from far away as long as no minions are anywhere around, and the enemy is low enough, with his current rockets, without even having to aim, but you are ignoring the fact that maybe 70-80% of the time that you are ever chasing someone with his current kit, especially if they are far, you can't use rockets AT ALL thanks to all the **** that is closer to you...

But back to the shred... It's REALLY rare for someone to ever get hit enough for it to reach 10 even with both turrets around... The shred is a joke... they just put it as a lame basically useless faux replacement for how his turrets used to keep training and building up 1 damage for each hit. Losing the shred makes VERY little difference... the only thing ever likely to get any noticeable amount of shred was baron, but they got rid of even that...

My 2 complaints are his cooldowns being longer than before, they really got nothing back in cooldown for him losing the CDR on his ult, and the amount more power they have is not THAT much that you can really justify them having effectively 30%-50% longer cooldowns than the old ones...

And his deactivation timer showing to enemies, which I think is retarded and may as well be a passive giving enemies vision of him at all times...


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ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-12-2013

try building this with the new dinger

magic pen boots, Athena's unholy grail, zhonyas hourglass, voidstaff(or abbysal scepter whichever you prefer) , rabadons deathcap, banner of command(your turrets yes even including the big one from your ult gain 15%inc damage (doesn't work on powerbolt tho) this build gives heimer considerable ability power some tankyness and the ability to still tear through the enemy tanks armor. I personally have damage based masteries to further make his damage more potent this build also provides some cooldown reduction and fast mana regen. (alot of you heimer players prolly build similar to this but for those who don't id definatly check this out it is very effective(and if u were wondering yes voidstaff and magic pen boots proc heimers turrets) hope I helped

(I never tend to build the items in any specific order it really all depends on the enemy team and what I feel I need most to combat what the current enemy team is throwing at me)