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Heimerdinger rework on PBE today

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Tserris

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
I like that type of thing in principle, but the rest of Heimerdinger's kit is currently sitting on all of his available mindshare budget and power budget.

The goals for a passive replacement, and they're pretty tough ones, are 'low power + low attention required + is awesome'. This hits awesome and low power, but requires a great deal of Heimer's attention. Normally a good thing! But, in this case, it distracts from playing the turret/rocket/grenade game, which is much more core to the Heimerdinger experience. I quite like this passive idea on its own, but when combined into the kit it incurs some tradeoffs.

Ideally, I'd love a passive that isn't flashy, but is efficient and does good work for the Dinger when his lane isn't going well and he's playing from the back foot.



Passive proposition:

While Heimer is near his turrets, each turret heals itself for X amount per auto attack while attacking minions, monsters, and champions. Maybe stacking healing like Warwick's passive so spell damage and high damage autos still have a chance to take them out quickly.


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chgyth

Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
Found a repro for the fog of war bug, it only happens on purple side. I'll be getting that fixed for the next build

Sorry i forgot to mention that he was purple side.


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Chaosos

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
I like that type of thing in principle, but the rest of Heimerdinger's kit is currently sitting on all of his available mindshare budget and power budget.

The goals for a passive replacement, and they're pretty tough ones, are 'low power + low attention required + is awesome'. This hits awesome and low power, but requires a great deal of Heimer's attention. Normally a good thing! But, in this case, it distracts from playing the turret/rocket/grenade game, which is much more core to the Heimerdinger experience. I quite like this passive idea on its own, but when combined into the kit it incurs some tradeoffs.

Ideally, I'd love a passive that isn't flashy, but is efficient and does good work for the Dinger when his lane isn't going well and he's playing from the back foot.


Hey after doing some inhouse based tests on heimer in Dominion I have to say I like the kit, the weakness of turrets seemed more noticeable but I think the resist buffs should fix it quite nicely


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ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-11-2013

helps a losing heimer? to what extent? like when heimers health drops below 50 percent he gains increased damage or turrets heal heimer for damage? something along those lines? if you give me some sort of parameters of somesort im sure me or one of the other guys here could come up with something pretty nifty (this is prolly way to strong but if heimers turret kill a champ after he dies he gets revived? is the after heim drops below 50% health turrets heal heim for damage they deal.. is that to strong? if u can narrow our options down a bit we will find something out)


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Titiln

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Upgrade! feels like it should be either charge based or have shorter c/ds, like lux ultimate short c/d.

turrets still die extremely easy, not to mention they all stop working the second he dies/walks out of range..


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Spinnerlink

Junior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
I like that type of thing in principle, but the rest of Heimerdinger's kit is currently sitting on all of his available mindshare budget and power budget.

The goals for a passive replacement, and they're pretty tough ones, are 'low power + low attention required + is awesome'. This hits awesome and low power, but requires a great deal of Heimer's attention. Normally a good thing! But, in this case, it distracts from playing the turret/rocket/grenade game, which is much more core to the Heimerdinger experience. I quite like this passive idea on its own, but when combined into the kit it incurs some tradeoffs.

Ideally, I'd love a passive that isn't flashy, but is efficient and does good work for the Dinger when his lane isn't going well and he's playing from the back foot.

I love everything about the heimer rework so far except the removal off tower healing on his passive, which is the only thing I liked about the old passive. Regardless though, I thought of some potential other passive he could have that might be of use.
1.) Instead of giving him a passive healing aura, make it around his turrets when they are active. (possibly this aura make other turrets activate allowing for strings of turrets or something?) This could add mechanic to his passive that could be played around, but it might need a bit more power iin this state and take away from the rest of his kit which is a no no.
2.)Every auto attack could lower the cooldown on his q, giving him a incentive to weave in auto attacks while trying to stand farther away. OF course with how easy it is supposed to be to replace turrets now this might not be a good idea, or have to take away from that which also might be bad.(could also be just lower cooldowns but I think another champ has that and again take away from heimer's kit)
3.)Heimer has suffered from poor mobility in the past, what if we gave him a sort of reverse Vayne passive? He could get increased movement speed while running away, instead of when chasing, allowing him to more effectivly stay at a safe distance. (this is one of my favorite ideas I thought of but I don't know if it would be balanced.)
4.) How about instead of just natural health regain he gets a stack of techmaturgical repair bots that makes his next auto/spell(not sure which or if even both) send out a smart heal to a nearby lowest percent health champion? (not sure what the cooldown would be on this or how much. This might be useful as a support or help him out in the jungle.(also when I thought of this one it also sounded familiar. Does another champ already have this?....))
Thats all the ideas I have at the moment. This is my first time posting on the forums. I felt I had to for a awesome rework of one of my favorite champs, you have done a great job so far. It would make me happy to see a response to each of this ideas but I understand that with how big this thread is you might not get a chance. I'll be looking for a response hopefully though :3
HEIMER FOREVER

Edit: The Vayne reverse one could be called rocket boots or something. Not sure on the cooldown one and the others could be the same.


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SSj Heimerdinger

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
I like that type of thing in principle, but the rest of Heimerdinger's kit is currently sitting on all of his available mindshare budget and power budget.

The goals for a passive replacement, and they're pretty tough ones, are 'low power + low attention required + is awesome'. This hits awesome and low power, but requires a great deal of Heimer's attention. Normally a good thing! But, in this case, it distracts from playing the turret/rocket/grenade game, which is much more core to the Heimerdinger experience. I quite like this passive idea on its own, but when combined into the kit it incurs some tradeoffs.

Ideally, I'd love a passive that isn't flashy, but is efficient and does good work for the Dinger when his lane isn't going well and he's playing from the back foot.

How about something completely different, something like brands ignite for heimers passive with a flip...
If heimer is under 50% hp, the passive heals his turrets+him and tower for the normal health regen, but if he is over 50% hp (or the enemy is under 50% hp), his spells ignite the enemy dealing a small amount of damage per second. This way, you can harass heimer and put him in a burst danger zone and see damage hurt heimer without him healing to full every second while at the same time allowing him to secure kills. This allows for you as a designer to buff his health regen into something noticable as well as give him a finishing move.


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
ilolzatpiranhas:
helps a losing heimer? to what extent? like when heimers health drops below 50 percent he gains increased damage or turrets heal heimer for damage? something along those lines? if you give me some sort of parameters of somesort im sure me or one of the other guys here could come up with something pretty nifty (this is prolly way to strong but if heimers turret kill a champ after he dies he gets revived? is the after heim drops below 50% health turrets heal heim for damage they deal.. is that to strong? if u can narrow our options down a bit we will find something out)

He means the difference between a heimer winning the lane and one that is losing his lane. at least thats what i think he meant by that.


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ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-11-2013

---HEEEEYYYYYY 20TH CENTURY FAUXXXXXXX!!!!!!!!---maybe for heimers passive we could pull something from kassidens ult? when heimer drops below 50% health(maybe lower like 35%) his spells can be cast multiple times without cooldown restraints at the cost of the mana cost ramping up real big!!!(then if ur lane is being pushed real bad you can just say GTFO MY LANE! with rocket spam or maybe get away with constant stunning and slowing)


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Cabaul

Junior Member

10-11-2013

Passive Idea (Mind Over Matter)
Heimerdinger and his turrets gains Hp regen equal to 50% of his mana regen. In addition, whenever he or one of his turrets takes damage from an enemy champion, Heimerdinger regens mana equal to 20% of the damage dealt to him or his turret over 5 seconds and this bonus regen is increased to 100% of his mana regen for 5 seconds. The health regen from this ability is doubled for turrets and always affects turrets.

So after reading this for a bit, I came up with this for an idea for a new passive for heimer. Its still useful, simple to think about(as it happens without you having to do anything) but helps heimer stay in lane and keep up a bit better if his enemy is whipping him a bit. A note about the above, the mana regen from taking damage increases his mana regen (based on how much damage he took) so he basicly recovers a % of the damage he took from his enemy along with some mana, letting him stay in lane a bit better and recover from a hit from a champ who is bigger then him.