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Heimerdinger rework on PBE today

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BlakeDizzle

Junior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
Hello! Just wanted to pop in and say I'm still reading every post, I'm just focused on wrangling all the bugs that PBE testing turned up.

Known bugs:
  • Turret resists not scaling with Heimer level (non-linear, basically only matters at levels 11+)
  • Tooltip on RQ slow incorrect
  • Tooltip on RQ duration bugged
Usability stuff:
  • Range indicator on Q placement as well as turret range size
  • Range post-deploy circle for RQ
  • Maaaaaaybe a way to check what turret was the last one placed? Not sure how doable this is, gonna be barking up this tree though
The weird thing about the resists bug is that it hasn't proven as problematic as I thought. We're definitely getting reports that they feel too squishy, but the impact is less than imagined and people are finding clever ways of playing around it. I'll be checking in fixes for most of this stuff today, resists included, and I'll be watching how they change the Heimer turret game very closely.

Specific stuff I'm looking for data on:
  • The special Heimer-only 'turret hits champ' sound. Annoying? Useful? Thoughts pls!
  • Turret tankiness at champ levels 11+. How fast are they dying? How fast are you replacing them? At how much CDR?
  • Turret AI bugs! I've heard scattered reports of the AI being dumb, but it's hard to pin down.
  • Wacky playstyles! If you come up with a way to Dinger like no ding has donged before, please share it! This is way more important than it seems. Heimer is a bit of an oddball in that his balance depends hugely on how he's played.
Thanks for all the kind words and feedback! I'm blown away by how big/awesome this thread is and I can't wait for this to go live.

798497


Towards the last turret being placed, just like with Shaco's ult, only he is able to distinguish which is which (along with his team of course)... so for Heimers turrets, you could make the last turret placed a slight recolor?

Just an idea, or if the turret button is pressed, the last turret placed will light up.

I dunno though, just suggestions.


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
Yeah, I'm curious about this too. It's my hope that it won't be too oppressive to go within range every 8 seconds or so, specifically because the times when you can't are also times when you're pushed to your own tower, making the ward less necessary anyway. Support Heimers, is this true? Why or why not?

Oh, awesome you're here. I know you just listed stuff you are looking for but i was wondering if you had any ideas for a different passive.

What made me want to keep the passive when a rework would come around is exactly what you removed from it. Its now a bleh passive that never really feels strong at all to me or anyone around me. It's invisible power without the power part. I just feel like its a waste. I'd much rather have something better defensively or offensively than this passive that he has now.


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chgyth

Member

10-11-2013

It was yesterday so i'm pretty foggy on some things. I think his skin was base. I was playing xerath(battlecast) and were dueling in a custom game(summoners rift). But whenever he went into the jungle to clear a camp I could see him on my minimap. It might only happen if its used to clear jungle camps.


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LastProtagonist

Senior Member

10-11-2013

I derped in my post yesterday and forgot to mention that I didn't know Heimer could place 3 turrets at level one or two. This is not in the tooltip.

One suggestion I have is to increase the amount of kits Heimer can store, up to a maximum of 4 kits at rank five, with an increased drop radius (I'd like to see a drop radius indicator as well) so he can "scout" a bit more effectively with his turrets.

Ideally, I'd like to see a Heimerdinger scout Baron with a turret, walk around the wall and be able to place 3 more turrets for a team fight by Baron/purple jungle entrance.


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Breakstar

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:

*Wacky playstyles! If you come up with a way to Dinger like no ding has donged before, please share it! This is way more important than it seems. Heimer is a bit of an oddball in that his balance depends hugely on how he's played.


I was trying the donger out in a custom yesterday, just running around and killing bots for the purpose of racking up innumerable kills and seeing how fun new Heimer is...
It may have something to do with the relatively lower AP items on the Crystal Scar, but I didn't end up with the huge 100-0 burst potential that I expected from a fed AP carry. It's only a minimal sample size, but is that intentional? Heimerdinger is inherently a defensive champion due to the nature of his turrets, so I'm just trying to figure out if his ability to force and win duels is intentionally weaker because of it.


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20thCenturyFaux

QA Analyst

10-11-2013

Quote:
NegativeZ3ro:
I was trying the donger out in a custom yesterday, just running around and killing bots for the purpose of racking up innumerable kills and seeing how fun new Heimer is...
It may have something to do with the relatively lower AP items on the Crystal Scar, but I didn't end up with the huge 100-0 burst potential that I expected from a fed AP carry. It's only a minimal sample size, but is that intentional? Heimerdinger is inherently a defensive champion due to the nature of his turrets, so I'm just trying to figure out if his ability to force and win duels is intentionally weaker because of it.


Heimer is a bit of an oddball. He puts out huge damage and can reduce a champ to dust very quickly, but he can't do what Ahri type champs do in terms of jumping someone and killing them. His kills are more about forcing people to fight in his turrets or following up an ally's engage with a rowdy RW.


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Senior Member

10-11-2013

is it possible to make turret HP scale with ap too ? because I feel it's not great to play ap heimer, when i go heimer ap people focus my turret and i'm useless.

while heimer support is better, because ap ratio are little bad so no ap is good and my turret don't deal enought damage to make people "omg focus heimer turret" so my turret deal actually lot of damage with no ap.


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JollyAmoeba

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Hello I am Jollyamoeba, a diamond 5 player but more importantly THE NUMBER ONE HEIMERDONGER FAN ON LEAGUE. I am here today to post on the forums for the first time to speak about my favorite champion. I will start with the easier things to talk about, his W and E.

W: Feels awesome. Isn't abusive. Allows for counter play. Great.
RW: same thing, I think this was done correctly.

E: Changing the blind to a slow was a great idea. That allows for a clearer combo path and the ability to save teammates from non AA based champions.
RE: Yes, Yes, Yes. Seems to be a great disengage tool or in laning a great engagement tool to allow for ganks.

R: This is where I have my first few complaints. When I was first reading the ability I assumed that it reset your other skills so that you always had the choice between which of your 3 abilities to UPGRADE. That is not the case however, and because of that Heimer's use case on his R is rather restricted. If during a teamfight you want to use your upgrade E to stun lotsa people then guess what, you're **** out of luck. If you want to use upgrade W or E in a fight you MUST wait instead of using the ability. Waiting for the cooldown to come back isn't a viable option during most fights so you resort to placing an Apex turret when you wanted something different. I do not believe giving his R a reset to his other abilties would be too powerful. If you land a stun then R to land another stun (for 1.25 seconds each currently) then you just used up your ultimate on forcing yourself to do that which seems like a fair trade off. What if you didn't cast E first and did RE first? Well I believe that if you cast RE first then your R and E should both go on cooldown after completion of the spell. That would limit its power to a fair level where you cannot set up a very easy stun with RE into a normal stun with E (same with other spells, put them on cooldown after the ultimate version of it is used).

R tl:dr Allow the R to reset abilities so its use case is much better.

Q: Turrets are awesome. Heimer is awesome. Turrets are Heimer. Heimer is turrets. This is Heimer's core theme.

The good
--------
Turrets are on a much shorter cd and you can place three at any rank.
Scaling health.

The bad
-------
Must max Q in lane in order to acquire enough turrets for them to not all die right away.
Resistances seem weak but I understand that's hard to get correct. Perhaps try looking at malz's minions?

This concludes my first post until I play test Heimer some more. Hope this was good =D


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
20thCenturyFaux:
Wacky playstyles! If you come up with a way to Dinger like no ding has donged before, please share it! This is way more important than it seems. Heimer is a bit of an oddball in that his balance depends hugely on how he's played.

One I intend to test a bit is Lich Bane Dinger: see if by just spacing out turret placements a bit I can get ridiculous damage over a short period of time.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

10-11-2013

His turrets feel too weak.
They hardly do any damage, die extremely easily, and the actually damaging lasers are too infrequent + too easy to dodge because of massive telegraphing + slow projectile.

If you want to telegraph the lasers make the projectile instant, and if you want a slow projectile don't telegraph the laser.

When I played Heimer, it eventually devolved into RW feeling like the "correct" choice all of the time, every time, because turrets were too unreliable.

With that said, I DO like his RW combo. If you can pull if off against a squishy, its basically Lucian ult stuffed into a half-second window.
Very scary if done correctly, especially combo'd with Void Staff + DFG has huge 100-0 potential on squishy champions like ADC/mages, although once you know how it works its also very easy to sidestep.