Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Heimerdinger rework on PBE today

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-23-2013

again with the dan dinh ****... HE ACTUALLY THOUGHT THE GRENADE WAS SLOWER!!!!! HE CANT TELL THAT A CHARACTER WITH A MUSTACHE IS MALE!!!!!! some of his points were right and I agreed with him on somethings. I watched his vid unbiased to see if he had legit points.... if he read the notes properly he would see altho rockets lose good damage on multiple targets you can actually hit who you want now by aiming and do even MORE damage to that single target. so to say the rockets do less damage is debatable. technically less damage is dealt over all but more damage is givin to a single champion if hit with all the missiles. heimers skill cap has been raised! even if he comes out weak they WILL fix it in the patches to come. any diamond player should jump all over that. not complain that now landing a poke takes a little more then being capable of counting to three.
and yeah the blind will be missed... but a slow... this means heimer actually has a chance to escape!(without waiting for an ult)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
ilolzatpiranhas:
again with the dan dinh ****... HE ACTUALLY THOUGHT THE GRENADE WAS SLOWER!!!!! HE CANT TELL THAT A CHARACTER WITH A MUSTACHE IS MALE!!!!!! some of his points were right and I agreed with him on somethings. I watched his vid unbiased to see if he had legit points.... if he read the notes properly he would see altho rockets lose good damage on multiple targets you can actually hit who you want now by aiming and do even MORE damage to that single target. so to say the rockets do less damage is debatable. technically less damage is dealt over all but more damage is givin to a single champion if hit with all the missiles. heimers skill cap has been raised! even if he comes out weak they WILL fix it in the patches to come. any diamond player should jump all over that. not complain that now landing a poke takes a little more then being capable of counting to three.
and yeah the blind will be missed... but a slow... this means heimer actually has a chance to escape!(without waiting for an ult)


While it's not automatic, it's about as close as a skillshot can get, seems like it's easily one of the hardest to dodge skillshots in the game. The main thing I like about it is that it lets him attack through gaps in the minion line, or from the side, without having to wait for only 2 minions to be left... and makes chasing someone over the minion line, or with minions right behind you, a lot easier. Now if I have someone low from autoattacks or other things and there are still minions left, i actually have a really good chance to use rockets to finish them without having to run really far past minions, instead of them usually being able to just walk away a lot of the time just because they are slightly more mobile.

it's practically automatic hit if enemies are close, and it still has that defensive element where it is also practically an autohit when someone crosses the minion line towards you.

EDIT: This is not to say that it might not still need some tweaks in power or base cd from the way it is now on PBE. But I agree with Faux here, it definitely has room for adjustment on live, when we really get to see what people do with him. It still feels better in a lot of ways mechanically and adds more interaction to his kit. I believe having missiles be aimable and not so situationally dependent on positioning makes him more capable overall and helps him a lot more than the slim chance to dodge it helps his enemies.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-23-2013

well said evolnemesis! the MOST ANNOYING thing ever is seeing an enemy with critical health make it to safety because I chased him through minions and there right behind me. and I noticed that the rockets had a rather slim hitbox(or whatever its called when its the attacks damaging area, I think hitbox is strictly damageable areas in a game might be wrong maybe I shoulda just said projectile width lol) I think that that's cool that you have the option be all farming and meanwhile you can unexpectedly hit them cause you were getting just the right angle while he thinks your just farming. this new dinger shall be a glorious one. im soooo eager to get my hands on it so much that idc what passive they slap on him anymore I just wanna play this live (idk that hes perfectly balanced or if hes got some weaknesses that have been overlooked but that will be fixe if so I just wanna play lol)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Heimerchina

Senior Member

10-24-2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2FVOqEF-T0

great work Dan Dinh! You said what current Heimer generally think of.


Quote From OmniAlliance (Youtube)
this mine as well be a new champ with a similar look, they should just release it as a new champ and keep the old heimer in too

Sure thing. I am really looking forward to fight against that new heim with my old heim. Turret fight should be fun.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Heimerchina:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2FVOqEF-T0

great work Dan Dinh! You said what current Heimer generally think of.


Quote From OmniAlliance (Youtube)
this mine as well be a new champ with a similar look, they should just release it as a new champ and keep the old heimer in too

Sure thing. I am really looking forward to fight against that new heim with my old heim. Turret fight should be fun.


All he said was mostly 'um... uhh.. I have no idea how this works... I don't really know what this does...' through like the whole thing when describing it... and a couple of things that are blatantly false... grenade still being slower and still really hard to hit with... really? and new rockets being even harder to hit anyone with than grenade, i think is doubtful too...

Heimer's total damage went down? really? did he notice that the new turrets attack at 1.75 speed all the time, nearly as fast as his old ones with the AS buff on? That makes his dps with the new turrets a lot better than you would think just from looking at the damage per shot... He also said he was still immobile... not even noticing the fact that he is now just as mobile as many other mages and supports because he got a move speed buff and gets to replace turrets more during a fight or as people move away from them... Talks about how it was an overall nerf to his kit and then goes on to make a bunch of kills the old Heimer never could have... Also, he actually seemed to be warming up to the new kit during the actual gameplay after his initial 'analysis' that he apparently did just from looking at the numbers and abilities in a custom.

He had a couple of points though, being encouraged to level turrets first all the time is probably bad, rockets do feel a little weak for being a skillshot with their cd, etc... they are overall weaker than his old ones gaining only a little extra situational single target burst but giving up a lot in other areas... but these are things that number tweaks can easily fix if they are problems (actually I think the rockets being more focusable, available more of the time, and less predictable by enemies because they are less restricted by situation makes up for more than you would think just from looking at the numbers... and buffing it much might make him too abusive in lane especially since the single target damage is potentially better and they are incredibly hard to dodge). I'm not even sure why he made that video, to tell the truth, he seemed like he was drunk or high when making it.

EDIT: I see the smurfs are coming out... and... guess what, new Heimer would wreck old Heimer 1v1.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

cimbop

Senior Member

10-24-2013

My Heimerdinger Feedback

First impressions:

He's awkward. If the enemy has any sort of mobility I'm left feeling really helpless. My skillshots all take too long to cast and have slow travelling speeds / small hitboxes.

His Q aims like an uzi strapped to a shopping trolly during an earthquake.
Meaning it seldom does what I want it to be doing, the 100 HP enemy champ in turret range is taking down my inhib but my turrets busy farming minions. Supposedly it aims at whatever I'm attacking but Heimer's auto attack is an underwhelming method of aiming his turret, slow missile speed, slow windup.
I'd increase the turret range and increase the area I need to be around it, I was very surprised by how close I had to be to my turret for it to function. The turrets themselves felt very squishy, like Zyra plants. They never lasted long at all. That feeling of applying pressure while keeping yourself guarded with your turrets is completely gone, they just melt away and can't fight back. They seem to exist solely against melee champs and to push the lane. I found it hard to notice the laser's effectiveness, I think mainly because the effect looked so bleak and red. I expected something bright and sparkly blue, in terms of damage or pressure I didn't notice their extended use either, turrets usually died to auto-attacks before they charged up a second laser and the first one is easy to predict since it comes out as soon as I place the turret.
I think they no longer exist as an offensive tool but would work well as a backline helper, placing them so they only attack the Melee creeps seems to be the only option since if they're in range of the caster minions they just get removed by the enemy champ.

His W needs to come out wider so it actually takes some skill to aim them all in one location, right now it feels like every time I aim it anywhere it's all coming out in a single file, I have to aim it super close to try spread it. Why not have it so it only converges completely when you aim it at the end of the range? Right now there's no difference in their collective hitbox between aiming it in the middle or the end since there's not enough time for it to spread anyway when aiming in the middle, so why not make it easier to spread by making it converge at the end and spread more if you aim it before that.

His E feels awkward to aim, again it might be the PBE lag but I feel like this could be better. Compared to Nevermove or Lux's Q or Cho's Q or really any sort of ranged delayed CC this feels like it's both giving away too much too early and doesn't have the goods to make up for that. Don't increase the radius of the stun since that's functioning fine, but I'd increase the outer radius by about 20/30 units or so. I mean the slow's really not spectacular enough to warrant such a small hitbox. Singed's slow feels like it always lands and his slows twice as strong.

Love the look of his new ult, the sparkly shiny effects and the new icons are great. Not really much I can say about this since my problems with his abilities apply here as well, except in the case of his E.
Overall I like the remake since I've missed playing Heimer but so far I'm not 100% on his power levels, his turrets feel worse, his W's good but also feels boring and like a weak Ahri Q that can't farm as well. His E looks comparatively worse than most Mid laner's skillshot CC I can think of and is much less reliable. His ult feels fine really, RE works well, RQ does too. RW is just basically the same ability but with more damage, so nothing new there. I'm interested in seeing how RW does in teamfights if you can spread it properly, since it seems more geared towards AOE damage than single target.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-24-2013

this dan dinh garbage is really dumb. it 100% baffles me that a diamond player would complain that a character has the potential to do better if you can be more skillful... ABSOLUTLEY BAFFLES ME!!! make a new champ? heimerdinger didn't change so much that he feels like a completely new champ..... he still has all the same moves aside from the ult. he still has his rockets but then now allow you to have more control which should be a plus in the eyes of any ranked players ESPECIALLY A DIAMOND ONE. his grenade travalls faster at the loss of some damage and a small aoe size reduction(hardly have I seen it missed FULL RANGE when a competent player was at the keyboard) the new turrets are awesome. altho weaker individual those 3 outbeat the old 2. evolnemisis is right. I bet if another diamond player had just one or two weeks to train with new heimer that if he fought dan dinh who was playing old heimer... dan dinh would get completely destroyed. (even tho that's clearly not possible)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

madibear

Senior Member

10-24-2013

if the new heimer fought the old one new heimer would completely dominate. the change on the grenade alone is a win. new heimer hide behind minions to deny you pokes use his actually land-able stun walk past mions poke you then return to safety.

the turret range of his turrets have been buffed you can set your turrets just outside old heims range by being familiar with your turret range circle and making it so old heimes turrets are just bearly in range.

the rockets would win out in certain situations and lose in some just depends.


and the ult... such a squishy character falling prey to this. new heimers advantage in landing the stun first would easily allow for heimer to just keep trying to stun while kiting old heim(plus ten speed )once he landed the stun walk up drop the bigg turret(slow on AA) then use your rockets chase while laying turrets and old heim has nothing... taking advantage of the stun would be sure fire victory. higher base speed means old heim cant run from new heim(kite like a boss). the rockets cant be screwed over cause of minions in certain situations. theres a lot more but enough said.



NOW- old heims only real dvantages. his rockets can beat out the old ones SOMETIMES IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS. and... you get free dool down reduction without having to build it. and finally old heim can have global turrets

-some other disadvantages of old heim. runs out of mana fast as all garbage(new heim can place turrets all day long, old heim..... ehhhh) new heims turrets can fire after death.

-my judgment is that new heimer has some advantages early game that aren't necessarily to ground breaking but once new heim reches level six...GG

-sorry if I missed anything hope you can see my point clearly.
(ps. I have respect for old heim and new heim I main heimerdinger hes my favorite I love him but I saw his changes and I can see he has potential. cant wait to play him cya!)

-edit- I dare go as far as to say that if any player who wasn't diamond that masters new dinger fought dan dinh with old heimer would win UNLESS dan dinh was able to completely wreck you early game before u get level 6. BUT in the words of dan dinh heimerdinger doesn't get kills unless you let heimerdinger kill you... so play it safe till you reach level six then play the stun game then destroy. youll get fed and he will have to surrender.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mawootad

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Didn't have much experience with heimer, but I'll share my thoughts on him. First off, I feel like these changes definitely make heimer feel more... stylish to play. The new projectiles look a lot better and the new rockets/turrets are really cool. He does feel a bit weird to play though. Rockets are weird to land and the turret beam targetting doesn't feel immediately intuitive. Also, because the ult uses up the cooldown of whatever skill you use it on, it can kind of screw you, especially early on if you decide you want to boost rockets. I would really suggest making it function similarly to Rengar's resource system, where when you activate it all of your spells are immediately put off cooldown until you use the buff (naturally, the damage would have to be lowered quite a bit to compensate). Also, I think it would feel a lot cleaner if when you cast the rocket swarm each wave targetted the current location of your mouse rather than the first wave targetting the current location and then each other wave having the same launch angle. Also the damage on the upgraded w is way too varied. If you hit all of them you instagib someone (bit excessive). If you wiff then your damage drops tremendously since your w is one of the biggest sources of damage so you now have two big abilities on cd without much to show for it. And turrets still feel like they're made of paper mache and get solo'd by zyra plants (without even killing the plant), which feels awful. Trading some damage for tankiness might be a good idea. That said, though, he definitely feels better to play and the changes are in the right direction. Keep up the good work.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

madibear

Senior Member

10-24-2013

just a random fact. both old and new heimerdingers ult buffed your spells. they both affected the cooldowns when using a buffed spell, this is essentially unchanged. the only thing that did change is that you can only choose to buff one spell(a whole lot better of a buff then the old) and you don't get free cooldown. altho it would be neat for it not to consume your spells casts making them cooldown it has always been that way. it just feels more noticeable now cause it feels like the ult should be its own move.
(and the rockets need there big damage to be affective! if they EVER strip the damage from the rockets cause they are to strong they would ABSOLUTLEY HAVE to compensate by giving the rockets free magic pen or armor/magic resist shred, otherwise they would be next to useless against tanks. yeah you could build voidstaff but the extra magic pen would definatley help make for any damage loss for the most part, plus I know there is ways to try to prevent this but the rockets can be side stepped especially if they have any sort of gap closer or dash type move like nidalees pounce or vains tumble) the fact that its a skillshot is why its allowed so much damage meaning despite your best efforts unless your almighty God himself it can infact be dodged or sidestepped sometimes(your not always gonna have your stun on hand).

-edit- to the guy posting above me I would HATE if the rockets ult aim could be adjusted throught each wave... and I KNOW FOR A FACT ALOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WOULD TO!!!! because you guys forget one simple advantage to the way they are now. you can be running away fire off rocket ult and then continue to run away while they fire and chip down the enemy. that would ruin this tremendously. not worth it.