Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Heimerdinger rework on PBE today

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Pompy The Pig

Senior Member

10-22-2013

Just wanted to pop in and say that this is a fantastic overhaul, overall.

Nothing really positive or negative to say about his passive, it's fine, if only somewhat dull.

Turret changes are solid, like that you can hold three. Change to make rockets a skillshot feels much more rewarding. Grenade is beautiful and responsive now. His ultimate was a stroke of genius, and I think it provides great and interesting options for playing as him, thinking about when to use which skill powered up.

Nicely done overall, he's really damn fun now.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

terickii

Junior Member

10-23-2013

Hello, i do not post often in any forums,
I have been reading every post in this discussions, I am happy my favorite champ is getting worked on; thank you.
I can't play on PBE, don't have an account for it so I am really only looking at what is here.

passive idea= every X turrets placed Heimerdinger receives +X damage for 4 seconds.
this passive would encourage working your turrets around and timing your final placement for that added spike damage. the turrets themselves get the bonus damage, not Heimerdinger spells. so, say Heimerdinger places 9 turrets ,,,and waits for the 10th, just as player walks by, he places that 10th torrent and WAM like a crit from all his turrets.

Also, I am a little worried, the current Heimer is very easy kit to master, because there are no skill shots, and you only need to learn timing for your grenades. Making Heimer with a high skill ceiling, and strategic gameplay; i only worry that if you miss your skill shots how punishing will it actually be? especially concerning low level (me), uncordinated(me again)players. so many AP mages feel like they need to hit there combos, then become useless while they wait for CD's, where as Heimer falls back into the protection of his turrets.

Anyway, thank you so much for the deep and consistant comunication with all of us, win or loose, your comunication with us is the best I have seen, and its appreciated.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
The other discomfort point I have when playing him is when I really want to be able to drop an ult-turret but I can't because I'm out of turret ammo -- but trying to always keep one in reserve can feel really awkward, especially when I don't have much CDR or can't stack ammo to 3 yet.

it doesn't count toward your three turrets I thought the only thing holding you back from turret ult is the one second cooldown if you just placed a normal turret(is what it seems to be from how it was described to me) . and from what I have seen for the ult grenade is two things, either oh **** several people are chasing me I need to get away. AND the bounces make it heimers farthest ranged move ive seen heimer chasing someone whos at critical health and there out of range of his moves so he tosses ult nade when persuing an enemy whos practically offscreen and it catches up to them and fineshes them. (I don't have a pbe account but I check everyday on youtube and watch people play him so that when he is live ill have a pretty good idea of what works and what gets you killed)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-23-2013

could we perhaps keep the passive he currently has but add like a spell shield (like banshees veil) or armor (like malphite) that activates if he isn't hit (by a champion) for x amount of seconds?

- a lot of people like the healing and others want some armor type properties I think adding that or a spell shield would be awesome for a midlaner.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-23-2013

some people wanted speed you could say he gets spellshield if not hit by enemy champ for x amount of seconds, heimer gains plus x amount of speed for x seconds if spellshield is popped. whatever is best. you could play around with a lot of variations. I just know a lot of people seemed to like an armor or resistance based passive.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

jamoecw

Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
ilolzatpiranhas:
some people wanted speed you could say he gets spellshield if not hit by enemy champ for x amount of seconds, heimer gains plus x amount of speed for x seconds if spellshield is popped. whatever is best. you could play around with a lot of variations. I just know a lot of people seemed to like an armor or resistance based passive.

splitting the power of the passive on three different abilities will make each of the three weaker. so having a weak healing aura, probably won't be all that great. having a weak shield might as well not be there. having a minor speed boost won't really be noticeable. having decent healing aura will be a big help. having a minor shield will help with the occasional auto attack, which makes a small but noticeable difference. having a small speed boost will help bring his speed up to normal.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Heimerchina

Senior Member

10-23-2013

I really suggest you invite Heim player from different rank, especially from high rank, to test the new kit before you release it. E.g. Man Dinh should be a good adviser.

There are a lot of response on this thread, yet I cannot find a single player played more then even a hundred ranked game as Heimerdinger. If there is one player, just one player, has played more Heimerdinger then me with better rank, tell me the missile change is better and fit Heim, then I will be satisfied.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LittleSoundDJ

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Now, I don't have a PBE account, (just signed up, crossing my fingers!) but I HAVE watched a TON of gameplay from this rework. Too much maybe. hours. Heimer is my favorite champ hands down, so I was really excited when I heard about this.

Here are my observations, take this with a grain of salt, since obviously I haven't physically played this myself.

I love the way this new kit plays mechanically. It's so much more versatile than the old heimer (which I love) but it is definitely not as powerful as the old heimer at what he always does best: siege towers and bully lanes.

The lane thing I'm actually happy about, because even though it's not as easy to win a lane, (see: auto target rockets) you can still win it very hard. He's got more options for playing safe if he needs to. (turret nest behind him in lane for when you get ganked) he just doesn't have that free harass nuke he had before that everyone who laned against him hated. Overall: Laning phase is harder but can be just as powerful if played right. also much safer.

Something I have noticed from just about everything I've seen so far is that his pushing power is decreased, significantly. the new rockets can only really kill 1-2 minions and no more AoE on regular turret attacks means his only good waveclear is on his ult. (the beam is extremely unreliable for hitting more than 1 or 2 minions, more on this later) R-W and R-Q will melt a wave, but I don't like the fact that heimer has to decide whether to use his ult to help siege or wait for the teamfight in order to be useful. Even though it can be a relatively low CD, all the enemy team has to do is wait for heim to use his ult to help siege then engage on a team with a much weaker heimer. His ult is a HUGE power spike for him and without it his teamfight just isn't quite there. I don't think reduced CD on his ult is the answer, however. I think that a couple of his main skills need to change a bit.

I love the new rocket system. At least, the theory behind it. If you're confident you can hit, aim to hit all of them, if not, rocket shotgun. It's a great concept, but right now it is just way too beneficial to just try and hit all of them on one target. the shotgun seems way undervalued and undertuned. I think the single target damage is rock solid, but the shotgun should just be a little more rewarding than it is. Biggest reason being for waveclear. If heimer shotguns a wave i feel like it should be a reliable waveclear. Not one-shotting the wave good, but enough that it only takes a grenade or a second or two for a turret to clean it up. I know the fear is that the shotgun will make it too easy to harass in lane, but i don't believe this will be the case. but if it is, maybe make an increased damage to minions mechanic on the first rocket to connect and not just subsequent rockets.

Turrets: SO MUCH BETTER. ugh can't wait to try this out myself. But what I know from the AI and what I've seen, the lasers target minions much more than i want them to. I want it so that if a turret isnt actually being focused by more than one minion, it does not fire. It is not reliable for waveclear so just make it not for waveclear, but potential harass. If you auto a champion, beams fire, they can dodge or take damage. if you land a grenade and they are in range of the beams, they should take damage from them. I know this is the intent, but as it is right now, the turrets cast the beams so easily that the turrets are almost never ready to fire if you land a grenade or hit an auto. if its too much for it to be a constant threat, maybe make it so that for 5 seconds after the beam has charged, it will only fire at a champion(via range, auto attack, grenade) then after that it goes back to the current priority.

Grenade seems fine, seems like the AoE is small, but that's something I'd have to play with before I would say anything.

Passive. I understand why you kept it. I just don't like it. But, as many have suggested in this thread, Maybe you could add a mechanic that makes it so that the turrets don't benefit from this passive, but instead of spell vamp receive a FLAT amount of their HP on each attack (not the beam). so that a turret can sustain itself only as long as it is continuously doing damage. Make the heal more powerful when the turret is targeting a champion and weaker against minions. Make the turrets base stats just tanky enough that they have to be focused, or at least the enemy has to THINK ABOUT them in order to die, but if they just take stray aoe damage from spells, they can keep auto-ing and not just disappear. Removing the regular HP regen from them allows the enemy to kill them during the siege easily, which is then dealt with by heimer building more turrets. But during a fight, you lay the turrets you have and won't often get the CD to come up before the teamfight is over to lay another turret. If a teamfight is over all of your turrets, you should put out some huge numbers, not just have your turrets melt instantly then just throw out rockets and a grenade every 10 seconds.


Ultimate is fantastic don't change it.

Overall, I think this version is a much more healthy and even stronger overall version of heimer and can't wait to play this myself. The changes I mentioned are really only my ideal situation.

Sorry about the wall of text.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Heimerchina:
I really suggest you invite Heim player from different rank, especially from high rank, to test the new kit before you release it. E.g. Man Dinh should be a good adviser.

There are a lot of response on this thread, yet I cannot find a single player played more then even a hundred ranked game as Heimerdinger. If there is one player, just one player, has played more Heimerdinger then me with better rank, tell me the missile change is better and fit Heim, then I will be satisfied.


Too bad everyone thinks he's still a Heimer player, considering he really stopped playing Heimer back in S1 when they put the final nerfs on his turrets and gave him his ammo system. He was playing him pretty well with the 2 turret version before the ammo system though... looked like he was going to take him to championships regardless... But he really stopped playing him regularly a LONG time ago.

He was right about one thing in his preview though, with Heimer's current kit on live, he really doesn't kill most champs in lane unless they screw up really bad and pretty much LET him.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ilolzatpiranhas

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
splitting the power of the passive on three different
its two different abilities(not three) that would be signified by the word or otherwise id have put and. and there are several passives with two parts like akahli. and her passive seems just fine. on top of that my second idea had two parts only one could be active at a time. im sure having spellshield and it popping giving u a small speed boost would not be so groundbreakingly op that you get a speed boost of 1% like you act like it would.
I could give a rip if you dislike my idea but the reason why you dislike it (or atleast one of the reasons) is false, so I thought id point that out. tho you are free to your opinion just base it off the facts.(fyi you combined two separate ideas of mine, that is why there separate posts if they were suppose to run together id have edited it in don't combine several posts to make it seem like something ridiculous. I just had two passives that were similar that's why I posted them separately in hopes people would understand that)

-edit(this is that feature I was telling you about that allows me to continue off of one idea if I so wish to do so)- even if the idea for the passive I made completely sucks(I could honestly care less what it is) my goal was met, and that goal was to read a lot of the passive ideas mentioned and try to implement them. a lot of people liked the idea of some sort of armor/ resistances and I saw a few mentioning speed. so I say hey, dinger goes mid. mid laners are mages. mages use spells. spellshields block one spell. fits. it might be cool if it popping gave heimer what other players wanted, a speed boost nothing to major there. faux said he wants it to help heim when hes losing well in certain situations im sure the speed boost would be nice.(again idc what his passive becomes im just trying to help throw ideas around)