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Xerath, the Magus Ascendant Rework on PBE Today!

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Bsul

Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
Lux should be a tough lane. Lux is about landing a Q, then blowing up the target. Well timed Xerath Q should penetrate her shields.

Gragas will pretty much 100% of the time beat Xerath. Gragas is a bruiser with an AP aoe nuke and a reverse Oriana ult. Very tough to beat. Similarly, Talon, Zed, Akali will all wreck a Xerath. That's appropriate.


the Only way Gragas will beat me is by me running out of mana before his runs out of HP, and that-s it. I can keeps my good distance with locust and the beauty of it is that i can 100% of the time land mage chains and unroot as he casts a barrel and retreat moving faster than the barrel/orianna /luxs Orb speed and even ahris, the mage chains range on locusts allows for us to cast it and retreat and dodge the missile bu outrunning it. this is something that i enjoy and i wont be seeing anymore. WHile i understand this is something that u wont change, DO not simply say. U will get wreckd. Current Xer can stand his ground. New xer seems to be lacking in that area, as i said in my post

To give us such a big number of skillshots makes us more vulnerable at melee speed, and without locust we are now closer to that position, even more now that we lost the Armor passive


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Volgust

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
Lux should be a tough lane. Lux is about landing a Q, then blowing up the target. Well timed Xerath Q should penetrate her shields.


Lux is already an even lane on live Xerath. My issue is with this rework, it'd be not jut harder but possibly a guaranteed loss. Why?

Early game:

Most, if not all Lux's level E first. That has a hell of a lot of poke/harass that's an instant-cast, one of the hardest skillshots to see that has an AoE slow, marks her passive and does quite a bit of damage. Having an instant-cast 1,000 range spell vs a 2~second 'charge up' and 0.5+ second cast time, you can't do much against that. Sure it should go through her shield but you'd still lose the trade with less health remaining.

Mid/Late:

It requires just about any mid to avoid her Q or die (unless you have zhonya), it's a bit even because if her Q can hit/land you're probably in a position to do the same. But you have it clearly marked on the ground where it starts and ends. She...doesn't. Unless it's just a PBE thing.

Also, when the jungler decides to come, she can force you to where she wants by placing E to make you choose:
Get hit by E or move away from minions to risk a Q?

She has so much utility to her with damage to back it. Xerath..doesn't. An unreliable W slow that anyone with any form of awareness would be able to avoid and an E that just screams "I'M COMING FROM HERE, TO HERE."

Quote:
Gragas will pretty much 100% of the time beat Xerath. Gragas is a bruiser with an AP aoe nuke and a reverse Oriana ult.


Either I've never seen a good gragas then or something because it's quite the opposite. I always won my lane as xerath. Why? Skill order: QWE so I can land the stun for jungle to gank for me,along with providing for a good amount of harass. Again, on live Xerath. Now he's just doomed entirely.

Quote:
Similarly, Talon, Zed, Akali will all wreck a Xerath. That's appropriate.


To some extent, they're assassins, fair enough. Though this is why I've been saying for the love of god let his E pass through minions at least. So you can have some possible manner of getting an advantage! Don't just make it "Okay these guys got something that'll just ruin him entirely now." that's not good counterplay, that's just being kicked in the balls for a minimum of 20 minutes.

Live xerath can max E in this case after Q for shorter cd on both abilities and harass more often while doing stronger pre-6 burst WEQW burst or even EQ to be a bit cheeky/risky. Now, with the rework, it's indeed to be hard-counter impossible to do anything against them...


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Hmmmm. I was hoping Xerath's stun would last longer at all ranges (especially close range due to xerath not having much in the way of preventing ganks). Any reason it can't be a 1 second to 2 second stun depending on the range the spell has traveled? .5 Seconds on the shortest range of the stun isn't anything, especially when tenacity is involved.

*EDIT* Or maybe allow it so if Xerath stuns someone within a certain close range proximity of him, he also gets a speed boost to help him get away?


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crims0nangel

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
IS1fa8992fb18aa9b5291e6:
That's what Xelnath said : Talon & Akali will all wreck a Xerath... Because that's fair !
An assassin must kill a Xerath if he can reach him

THATS THE POINT OF XERATH, he is a RANGED mage he pokes and avoids direct contact at all cost, what dont you get about that. No this kit is not broken he sacrifices mobility and a spell slot to do it, xerath only has 2 spells and a an ult.


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crims0nangel

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
Bsul:


Since you asked for constructive feedback I will give you some Ideas.




Q Put back into the Old minimum range, decrease max range by 200, give a speed buff for 1-3 seconds depending on the time of charge up.


W I am yet to see this skill but w/e happens just make sure it is a Reliable slow as a escape mechanism, just like Luxs slow either bigger Aoe or less delay casting time

E either Target Cast slow that stuns on spell hit like mage chains of bigger projectile speed at melee point, which gets smaller the longer it travels.

R

Ascended form.

Allows us to enter Ascended form for 100 mana.

During ascended forms we can Cast all of our spells with a +400 range buff and cast Q at max range automatically without charge ups.

when in ascended form we can also use Arcane barrages

To cast an arcane Barrage consumes an arcane barrage counter and costs X amount of mana

Arcange barrage counters are generated every 15 seconds every spell that hits an enemy champion reduces the cd by 2 seconds.

Although I dont agree with all of your points this is the best set of ideas ive seen yet in this forum. I feel the q should have no cast time after charge up and a slightly less of a slowing effect. His current E is absolutely horrid and absolutely needs to be reverted back to live.


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Xelnath

Recruiter

10-18-2013

You might be better than I at fighting Gragas then - I consistently lose to a good gragas getting into my face, auto-attacking and winning. Plus the level 6 ult just knocks me into him if I'm locus'd.

Anyways, yes, this kit has traded out periods of immobility and periods of fast mobility for a smoother movement scale on Q and a fun attack sequence on W.

This kit does not have hard combos. That is correct. W->E->Q was really the only variation Xerath had on live for closing in on stuns, excluding the mobile R case.

Let's look back at the goals of the rework:

* Keep the good abilities
* Reduce clunkiness
* Create skill options
* Satisfy the siege/sniper fantasy better
* Maximize range and damage over CC

Before, E -> Q or E -> R were about it. W->Q was basically one skill. W -> E by itself was pointless. W -> E -> Q was his CC.

That was it. That was the depth of the character. You had rigidly defined instructions, not options. Now you have the option to start with W to setup an E stun to guarantee a Q hit, or fish for an E stun to guarantee a W center shot, followed up by a Q.

I will gladly concede that maxing E first on Xerath is not really an option. It did not seem like a viable option to me before on Live Xerath easier.

Finally, Q charging on its own lets you snipe consistently. R is far more clearly a siege, finishing ability. (Perhaps so much that it should have missing % health damage? That would damage its effectiveness for opening a team fight though)

The things the kit does not have that I could not find a healthy way to preserve were:

1) A highly selective stun
2) Free massive amounts of armor driven by AP (This also felt unnecessary and out of character)
3) Hard Combos (He has soft combos instead)


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CoBTyrannon

Senior Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
Lux should be a tough lane. Lux is about landing a Q, then blowing up the target. Well timed Xerath Q should penetrate her shields.

Gragas will pretty much 100% of the time beat Xerath. Gragas is a bruiser with an AP aoe nuke and a reverse Oriana ult. Very tough to beat. Similarly, Talon, Zed, Akali will all wreck a Xerath. That's appropriate.


And how exactly is that an improvement to live?
I remember reading a red, that wanted to remove hardcounter as much as possible and yet here i read the exact opposite.
Is my memory playing tricks on me there?


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IS1fa8992fb18aa9b5291e6

Member

10-18-2013

Quote:
crims0nangel:
THATS THE POINT OF XERATH, he is a RANGED mage he pokes and avoids direct contact at all cost, what dont you get about that. No this kit is not broken he sacrifices mobility and a spell slot to do it, xerath only has 2 spells and a an ult.


I was not talking about the live Xerath, but the PBE one.

I'm one of those who prefer to keep live Xerath kit, but the rework will be done ...
That's why i prefer refocus on this one ... If I dont want to replace Xerath by Lux...


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Xelnath

Recruiter

10-18-2013

Quote:
crims0nangel:
Although I dont agree with all of your points this is the best set of ideas ive seen yet in this forum. I feel the q should have no cast time after charge up and a slightly less of a slowing effect. His current E is absolutely horrid and absolutely needs to be reverted back to live.


E needs the warning to communicate the path and behaviour to the opponent. It is intended that using this ability for personal safety instead of opening up a window to attack is less effective, since its basically a guaranteed success without the need for a skill shot now.

Q *must* have a delay before firing - otherwise it is not possible to avoid such a long range attack. The base Q range is pretty hefty though - I highly recommend you try closing distance and just firing it off a few times - I've had decent success with this on PBE.

Q full-range charge is a trade of telegraphing your actions (creating counterplay opportunities for the opponent) for increases safety. Trade away that safety to take away their safety as well.


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Xelnath

Recruiter

10-18-2013

Quote:
CoBTyrannon:
And how exactly is that an improvement to live?
I remember reading a red, that wanted to remove hardcounter as much as possible and yet here i read the exact opposite.
Is my memory playing tricks on me there?


My job is *not* to buff your character. I realize that is what you want. Live Xerath is not an underpowered champion who needed buffs. We are trying to make the healthiest champion that preserves the good mechanics of Xerath and fills the role that the many players we talked to, surveyed and interacted with indicated was their Xerath fantasy.

I, too, heavily mastered the clunky hero to gain access to his incredibly OP stats. That is why I recognize the pain you feel. However, that clunkiness pulled a lot of potential away from Xerath too.