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Xerath, the Magus Ascendant Rework on PBE Today!

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Wyndrydyr

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Crownface:
It wouldn't matter even if they had 2k range, the fact that you're unable to change your spell range on Xerath is a red flag.


I really disagree with this particular point. Several people in this thread have pointed out that Xerath as a Siege Mage/Artillery caster is what they're going for. I really do like the idea of picturing Xerath as your 'long range, bombardment mage' because frankly, no one else in League does that AND it fits the lore fairly well.

That said, I legitimately don't see how having Locus as a base spell is inherent to his lore or playstyle. For me, the fact that his Q still has absurd range and his ult has even MORE absurd range, as well as the AoE bullseye on his W all make a lot of sense. I'm not 100% happy with the ult, but I still feel like they moved in the right direction with it.


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Bsul

Member

10-17-2013

since i am not in PBE can some tell me the following plz

Travel time is 0.65

CD in between casts

Time of R activation

Now on a diff note.


currently xer ult is used mostly with vision and thats what all players are used to.

While I understand that vision would seem OP.

I still wanna ask. Don you think that reducing aoe, increasing travel time, delaying dmg per hit and increasing number of casts+no vision is MOST of his range seems kinda of hard to use compared to the current Ult.

Especially in team fights Within 1500-1800 range from you, Not only u cannot longer attack from the ohter side of the wall before they flash on you, but you need more time to dish out the combo, And is harder to try to hit more than 2 enemies.

Btw can you tell me how would zhonias hourglass work on his ult? would it cancel it?

would it allow me to attack while invulnerale?

would it freeze me in that weird state?


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PillClinton805

Member

10-17-2013

I'm a Xerath main, I don't see how people who have played him to death, essentially bonding with character and creating a playstyle, knowing all his ins and outs are okay with never having the experience of playing him ever again.

Xerath's core identity of being able to burst multiple targets and punish the other team for poor positioning and bad tactics is gone. Now all he does is poke, stun and slow with 'decent' damage and now has the ability to pick off stragglers with an ult. The funnest times with xerath involved bursting carries and turning teamfights around with his game changing ult.

Here was my original post about this:

Hey GD. I'll keep it short, I main Xerath, approx 160 games ranked(I know its not that much), I love Xerath's feeling right now. Some of my favorite things are his E(Behind wall) -RQRRQ combo to combo squishies. Even though he his an ult reliant champ, knowing how to time his ult's before team fights is the only skill really required. Not to mention how fun it is watching a whole team come rushing baron through wraith buses while your rooted in pit and ulting all of them to AT LEAST 1/2hp. I know he can be awkward at first, but you can't help but love his kit once you learn it.
I'm deeply saddened to see his E now hits minions, and is R is not nearly as team decimating as it was before. Ya, his kill potential is higher in lane, but for me, Xerath's most fun moments are turning team fights completely around with a well timed combo on the enemy carry. I am excited for his rework but I cant help but express how deeply saddened I am to see him changed so much. I only wish they would have just created another champ. That's all GD, excuse my grammar!


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stoornis

Junior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
ZenonTheStoic:


* R:
-- Decreased the size of the impact to 175/200/225 from 200/225/250
-- Decreased fixed travel time of the shots to 0.5 from 0.65
-- Dropped vision gained. Want to test with no vision for a bit before I put the radar back in (if necessary)
-- THOUGHTS: This iteration should make it clear that the ulti is less about the AoE damage and more about hitting that one high value target. May need to adjust AoE size further down to get this point across. I don’t want players to spend time thinking about “do I use this to AoE a bunch of dudes or do I snipe down Ashe?” You always snipe down the Ashe. Adjusted travel speed to match, should feel about the same to dodge/hit, but particle work next week should make play/counterplay clearer. Additionally, your next shot now becomes ready the instant your last shot landed. Should lead to overall smoother feeling.

Testing focus: please focus on hit/dodge play of E and R. I am interested in aggressive use cases of the E as well as personal safety against heavy divers without move blocks such as Udyr and Volibear.

hey zenon i was wondering if ti were to be possible to try this out instead of giving him complete vision why not tie it more lore wise so make it that whenever someone within the radius of the ult uses an ability they pop up on the minimap because he is a being of pure arcane power he could say "sense" these things make the vision of the champ last about 1 sec maybe 2 sec tops? what do you think?


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Volgust

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Strikersgun:
I totally understand your point, I play Xerath almost exclusively in ranked and in normals and this rework is going to make everything harder for us compared to live especially endgame with physical dmg having 250-300 armor at the end of a game meant even if lets say zed got to me i can survive the initial attack and Zhonya the ult dmg while my team start killing him now ill be dead even without his ult.


Finally! Someone seeing the issues I'm having with this, it's not just the passive I'm getting at though. It's the E, the stun is being made into something neigh useless! The passive was semi-good, normally starting off with about 3 armor + armor seals = 19 bonus starting armor that's a bit nice to have for minion damage (AP quints+21/x/x masteries). Yet again, my issue is with his main form of defense, that is his stun being nerfed into oblivion and below!


Quote:
The passive didnt help against ap opponents no but there are more ways to fight them in team fights compared to zed with all the mobility he has and him being flavor of the month.


True, though it would help against the top somewhat, jungler also as those two let off a few AA's. Even against Tf to an extent, along with fizz. But fizz will 100-0 you anyway as your E frazzles out when he uses his own and just does everything to explodify your face.

But people, please, do tell me if you agree:

E: No pathing on the ground, goes through minions (if it does damage or not, not big deal). Slow it down to 'normal' amounts (Ahri E, Lux Q). Then if Riot God deems it worthy, perhaps scaling/lvl so it goes 1/.1/.2/.3/.4/.5

This means that people don't just go "Okay, skill ranks QWE R when possible" they say "Hmm, more stuns/duration for better harass or more AoE for better waveclear/damage?" if your team/jungler is a Maokai for example, or a Vi. Max QW, if it's something like a Zed or a Trynda, max QE

If needs be, even go back to the whole 'Proc for stun' thing. This adds more counter-play to it via avoiding his other abilities. Does he go predictable with Q charge-up/shoot or lose damage with an AoE W? Though, if it does go with the proc rule, I'd say to normalize it with others, that it has an explosion/secondary effect.

Mostly as every other proc'd effect has something to it (Cough-Le Blanc WQRW burst coughcoughcough, Akali Q->anything, Lux passive->AA)

Doesn't have to be big but can be countered by zhonya/avoiding abilities and can still be useful!


W: Just normalize the damage for the love of the gods. Just adjust it so that it's a nice little thing (again, like Veigar's W mechanically, 100% Ap after 1.25+AoE stun? hurr) I can go on to say just how many other abilities have long range, high AP with the same damage coming regardless of how little of you is caught in it.
  • Veigar W (as mentioned) 100%AP (No additional effects but has massive AoE stun to ensure landing)
  • Lux E 60%AP + Passive + Slow (20-36% depending on rank until exploded)
  • Gragas Q 90%AP + AtkSpd Debuff (20-40% depending on rank after detonation)
  • Brand W 60%AP + 8%Max hp (passive) (OR 75% if passive already on them + 8%Max HP)
  • Fizz ult (Applicable?) 100% AP + AoE + Slow

So please, people, quote this, direct redpost attention to this. We want Xerath to be just as good as these! Don't let them nerf him to the ground for the love of god at least quote the above part!


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Strikersgun

Member

10-17-2013

yea there are more issues like you stated which i commented on way earlier on this thread mostly the E being targeted being defense, on live u got 4 chances to save yourself once the enemy is in range with ult and Q after E hits on Pbe miss E and your dead guaranteed and flash isn't gonna help much against an ahri, zed, fizz, kass pretty much everything currently being played mid or on a team atm.


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Volgust

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Strikersgun:
yea there are more issues like you stated which i commented on way earlier on this thread mostly the E being targeted being defense, on live u got 4 chances to save yourself once the enemy is in range with ult and Q after E hits on Pbe miss E and your dead guaranteed and flash isn't gonna help much against an ahri, zed, fizz, kass pretty much everything currently being played mid or on a team atm.


Sorry but I must've missed it, my European blood only lets me stay up and around here for so long before I konk out to bed.

Though yes, this is something I'd like to be seen into, at least on live xerath, even against kassaWin you can RE before his Q hits, then just RWQR to finish it off to have an even trade, even if he'd most likely live, you'd have still done a number on him.

(Yes R + E so if you're fast enough, you'd manage to stun him just before/after he silences you)


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RobotNinja

Junior Member

10-17-2013

Clairvoyance might be useful now :O


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Teho

Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
PillClinton805:
I'm a Xerath main, I don't see how people who have played him to death, essentially bonding with character and creating a playstyle, knowing all his ins and outs are okay with never having the experience of playing him ever again.

Xerath's core identity of being able to burst multiple targets and punish the other team for poor positioning and bad tactics is gone. Now all he does is poke, stun and slow with 'decent' damage and now has the ability to pick off stragglers with an ult. The funnest times with xerath involved bursting carries and turning teamfights around with his game changing ult.

Here was my original post about this:

Hey GD. I'll keep it short, I main Xerath, approx 160 games ranked(I know its not that much), I love Xerath's feeling right now. Some of my favorite things are his E(Behind wall) -RQRRQ combo to combo squishies. Even though he his an ult reliant champ, knowing how to time his ult's before team fights is the only skill really required. Not to mention how fun it is watching a whole team come rushing baron through wraith buses while your rooted in pit and ulting all of them to AT LEAST 1/2hp. I know he can be awkward at first, but you can't help but love his kit once you learn it.
I'm deeply saddened to see his E now hits minions, and is R is not nearly as team decimating as it was before. Ya, his kill potential is higher in lane, but for me, Xerath's most fun moments are turning team fights completely around with a well timed combo on the enemy carry. I am excited for his rework but I cant help but express how deeply saddened I am to see him changed so much. I only wish they would have just created another champ. That's all GD, excuse my grammar!


Wait isn't his damage being buffed? I mean I can't go on PBE, but the ratios are being improved, as well as the range. Hes also getting an additional AOE....


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Volgust

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Ted321:
Wait isn't his damage being buffed? I mean I can't go on PBE, but the ratios are being improved, as well as the range. Hes also getting an additional AOE....


Well, in the reworked kit there is indeed a spell that directly applies more damage. His W, from being a range+Spellpen buff is now being turned into a small AoE spell with a 'sweet spot' and slow. Additional damage/slow for hitting right in the middle (which is when you actually see it doing damage, if it doesn't hit the center really feels like a waste of mana)

What I dislike is mentioned in my post above about his new W and what should be changed to make it normalized with the others.

Also, the 40%spellpen was a deadly weapon that he had, which hardly any knew of. So they're adding more damage to his kit theoretically with the new W and putting 20%Spellpen in his passive.

Though on the other hand, he now has a lot of indication when he's about to do anything except AA/move. Thus removing any 'discretion' and making it easy for anyone to say "Oh hey I sure better not go here!" in contrast to just about all other mids at the moment. (You don't see a path on lux E do you?)


His Q is getting a 0.05 (latest literation) AP boost at the cost of (slightly) lowered base damage.
Range is being changed to 700-1400 (qq or q+charged) from 900-1300 (q or WQ)

His E is being turned into a skillshot with variable stun 0.5-2 sec depending on distance and doesn't pass through minions

R is going to be changed so not sure if worth commenting on right now.