@Morello: When you consider nerfing Support Zyra. Just remember one crucial thing....

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Zyorhist

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Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
Oi Morello, if you're still here I have some suggestions to compensate to those severe nerfs.


I have TWO main suggestions I hope you can take into consideration and give some feedback to.

First of all, if you really want to make her more plant-focused, I think you should start with parts of her kit that doesn't do a thing with her plants, namely her Passive. It was literally a placeholder Passive that doesn't fit her in anyway at all, so I think that may be a good start.



Passive - Vigorous Pollination: Zyra is pollinated by her spawn. She generates Seedlings at an increased rate for each plant on the field up to a maximum of X seedlings.

Zyra is not just a plant, but a FEMALE plant. What if she were a really fertile female and her Passive lets her pollinate like from her plants? This Passive will encourage her to not just summon plants, but to do so smartly. To summon her plants in a way to keep them alive rather than simply throwing them into the opponent.


Second is a modification of her plant mechanics.


From now on her plants comes in 5 levels. Level 1 being incredibly weak and fragile, while level 5 being incredibly sturdy, enough to survive a teamfight long enough to be relevant. When a plant is summoned, they start off at level 1. The plant gradually matures the more it attacks, going from 1 to 5. Zyra may summon a Seedling near the plant to heal the plant and accelerate their maturation to the next level. Alternatively, Zyra may choose to cast the spell that spawned the plant in the first place on the plant again, doing so will kill the plant and grow two plants that are two levels lower than the one you sacrificed.



These changes are designed to give Zyra the ability to have a lot more plants around than she currently can, or if she wants, a small number of large really sturdy plants.




The intention of the Passive is to compensate for the excessive nerfs to her W, to give her a Passive relevant to her playstyle, and to steer her towards a more plant-friendly playstyle like you want. It encourages you to protect and cultivate your plants, and it gives her a "nature is taking over!" theme as the better she does, the more plants there will be in the battleground. The intention of the changes to her plants is to make Zyra players put more thoughts into how they position her plants, to take care of Zyra's babies. On the other side of the coin, it also gives Zyra's opponents more counter-play to Zyra's plants too. They may attempt to aggressively kill Zyra's plants while they're still young, or focus the plants down. If the plants are down, Zyra gets less plants to pollinate her and she generates seedlings slower. Not to mention, the killing of a level 5 plant will erase a lot of hardwork Zyra will have put into cultivating it. The enemy player has MUCH more incentives to pay attention to Zyra's plants now, while Zyra herself has much more incentive to think about how she summons them and what to do with each plant.



Now, how will this Zyra with her new plants not work out in lane as well as she currently does? Her damage output will not be nearly as high as they are not as it takes longer for her plants to mature, not to mention, with the method her plants matures, she will be less ideal as a support as she will forcefully push the lane or even still cs from the ADC. If the ADC is constantly trying to farm with Zyra's plants around, her plants won't have as much food as they would have in mid, hence they take far longer to mature, keeping them in immature states much longer. Replacing her true damage Passive will also hurt her more as a Support than as an AP mid(I hope).

I know Morello replied to this already but this idea sounds great to me. Its kinda like a malz/heim mixup that puts some definite feel to her. When Zyra first came out I thought to myself "She looks cool i wouldn't mind trying her" then I played 2 matches vs her, and immediately went "So she is a burst with some plant coverage". These types of changes would change that and make a name for Zyra. I would like to see this, though there would be one thing I would like to see changed, if she leaves her plants too long they start to die. So like when she is outside say 1500 units they lose 10% hp per second. Also the timers on her current plants are too short, they should be like heim turrets where they stay up until killed or she leaves them.

All in all-Her plants should be more of a threat, and the only way to get rid of them is to kill Zyra or focus the plants. Tone down some of her ability burst and put it into the plants. Make them stay in force longer and allow them to "grow".


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ShroudedGlory

Senior Member

10-17-2013

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Originally Posted by tadidam View Post
changing zyra ? Sigh.... Don't destroy her like you destroyed olaf please.
ftfy


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Kazoopie

Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We're buffing support gold a lot - we're going to have to do a lot of champ-specific changes (and yes, some nerfs)
Please, please go easy on my lulu.


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Majin Bl3u

Senior Member

10-17-2013

I loved Zyra on release, but i stopped playing her because i HATE her passive. I like the suggestion of changing it so that she can "pollinate" her plants, thus causing them to spawn new ones if they are kept alive long enough.

If you do change her burst damage and make her rely more on her plants, can we at least get one of the following changes?
-Shorter cooldown on seeds
or
-3 seeds
or
-Longer laster (tankier) plants?

Cause if you do take away a chunk of her burstiness, i think she will have to clear of a counter play (kill her plants - gg). As she is now at least even if you kill her plants she still does decent damage with her Q/E/R.


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Based Bob Ross

Senior Member

10-17-2013

New Zyra = Heimer 2.0


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Zyorhist

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Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Based Bob Ross View Post
New Zyra = Heimer 2.0

more like heimer/malz


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Bleargh

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We're buffing support gold a lot - we're going to have to do a lot of champ-specific changes (and yes, some nerfs) because they've never been balanced to scale at all. If they get to scale, then it needs to be reasonable in how and why. More on this soon.
Most support champions scale very poorly with items and lack of gold isn't really a problem to begin with.

The reason supports don't get to buy items isn't because they don't have gold, it's because they scale poorly with items and vision in an infinite money sink.


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Grand Eleven

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yep! But I'd rather weaken and risk balance on a champion if it makes the strategic niche and identity more diverse and clear.

EDIT: Again surprised! You guys prefer leaving Zyra alone, we can do that. I'm surprised more people don't want the plant mage gameplay that would be much more unique.
Im suprised as well ... as that's why i picked her up and largely why i stopped playing her (her plants are more of just another spell than they should be).


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spiderswine

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Eleven View Post
Im suprised as well ... as that's why i picked her up and largely why i stopped playing her (her plants are more of just another spell than they should be).
well,there's always heimerdonger for that purpose.
zyra is fine the way she is now.


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ILBE MC MooHyun

Junior Member

10-17-2013

they need to hire a new person for nerfing, honestly all the nerfs they are making are made by silver 2? I bet silver 2 has an extensive understanding of the game compared to diamonds right??