@Morello: When you consider nerfing Support Zyra. Just remember one crucial thing....

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UnderworldH4des

Senior Member

10-16-2013

bump


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medulla00

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Morello are you changing the vision paradigm (wards, slots, true vision) at all?
You gave us a lot of gorgeus items for supports in S3 and money to be able to afford a full build if we started GP5+sightstone... But at the same time, I've never saw support so gold starving as in S3. Most of the time pro supports had nothing in their inventory outside of sightstone, mobility boots and philo/shurelia and tons of pinks and an extra oracle. I even got raged several times for building a fifth/sixth item isntead of wards (and I normally have an average of 3/4 greens +1 pink, as if supports didn't have the right to have 5 items in a 55mins game.


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Talon Silverwing

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Senior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
While specifically I'd take a different approach, this plant-based "grow the world over" direction is much more the area I want her to live.
Hey Morello, when you say you want to make Zyra more "plant-based" do you mean you want to rework her kit to focus more on her plants (like ability changes and such) or do you mean just taking away base damage/ratios on her spells and shifting them to her plants?

Because I think a big problem (and the reason you are running into so much resistance) with Zyra is that there isn't really anything interesting going on with plants atm. You just set them up and they do damage every so often. There is no tricks to them, they don't make big plays, they feel like they are just bonus damage on top of your spells.

So when people hear you say that you you want to make her "plant-based" they freak out because they think the plants are boring right now.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

10-16-2013

for some reason I can only interpret these mythical season 4 changes as "Morello finally nerfs everyone and everything

and probably irelia again too because hay".


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Mirage Night

Senior Member

10-16-2013

I would love items that state

gold per 5

Increase the duration of roots,snares,etc. by x duration.

or

increase the duration of buff / debuff by x duration

This way, well my scaling on ratios suck, but man I am going to make sure your ass is rooted long enough for my freinds to finish you off.


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Auryiel

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Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
While specifically I'd take a different approach, this plant-based "grow the world over" direction is much more the area I want her to live.
Too bad you'd just end up nerfing it to the point plants get 1-shotted because it's different...


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Gløry

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We've never done gold flow work on them before, directly. Understandable though.

We're buffing support gold a lot - we're going to have to do a lot of champ-specific changes (and yes, some nerfs) because they've never been balanced to scale at all. If they get to scale, then it needs to be reasonable in how and why. More on this soon.
So i should batten down the hatches and settle in for more janna nerfs before this all blows over?

And I'd just like to point out that Alistar already got screwed over in a similar way.

After all the ap nerfs and stuff, he was still a good support pick. Till Trample and his jungle became popular. And then riot did everything they could to nerf him and disable him for the jungle...which ruined him for bot lane. When all they had to do with alter his passive so he couldn't jungle anymore, but not affect his lane.

It was a hamfisted destruction of one of my favorite characters. No finesse at all.


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XSkylarcX

Member

10-17-2013

I play a lot of support and yes i almost always pick zyra. compared to other supports she is fun to play! many other traditional support chmpions are so boring u could fall asleep (leona,soraka,taric) and you are completely dependent on your carry doing well and defending his own lane. with zyra you acually feel like you have some abilety to help hold your lane! you dont feel like your usless even if ur carry is behind.

i hardly ever pick zyra for mid lane, she dosent stand a chance vs those gapclosers that are so populair now days (unless its a newbie, its very much a matchup based on skill), the best you can hope for is puting out enough damage around urself as you die and then pick up a kill with passive... yay.. (that passive is stupid btw.. rewarding only when u die and u get nothing for playing well )

i dont agree that zyra needs to be nerfed. if she was such a threat she would get banned in draft, and she is not to my knowledge. Also if Zyra is such a problem bot you can always counter pick her.

support is the roll that the least amount of people want to play, mostly becouse thay feel powerless to help carry, and that support gameplay is nonrewarding and boring.

dont nerf zyra into a weak boring support! make other supports fun and powerfull!



now.. If you still want to nerf support Zyra i think you should focus on lowering the time her "wards"(seeds) give vision and definetly not inceres the range! safer warding is always a plus for supports. reduse her cc duration and in return give her more movspeed/defensive stats.

also for her passive make it so its something similair to lissandras aoe stun on W (ring of frost) that acteviates atomatecly if she has low hp and a enemy jumps on her/is in her face. it should have a timer like Zac's and aatrox so its not always up but can be blown.

I dont think she needs nerfing at all, but this would be a more effective way to target support zyra and leave mid zyra a chanse


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50mm3r

Senior Member

10-17-2013

If you are going to make her more plant dependent, please make them tankier. Some champs instantly destroy them and it really sucks.


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Argodis

Senior Member

10-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We've never done gold flow work on them before, directly. Understandable though.

We're buffing support gold a lot - we're going to have to do a lot of champ-specific changes (and yes, some nerfs) because they've never been balanced to scale at all. If they get to scale, then it needs to be reasonable in how and why. More on this soon.
Are you sure that buffing support gold is the proper solution?

Unless you guys have something planned for wards as well, the extra support gold will just be used to buy more wards.