@Morello: When you consider nerfing Support Zyra. Just remember one crucial thing....

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XcSDeadDeer

Senior Member

10-09-2013

Zyra is a great mid laner and brings great utility to a teamfight. But what makes her "op" as a support in the eyes of riot? A support Annie with her stun does way more damage than supp Zyra AND offers CC. Leona offers way more CC and decent damage. Soraka does decent damage and has heals. What makes a supp Zyra so "OP"?


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Cancer Fizz

Senior Member

10-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacor View Post
Being able to destroy support Zyra's plants easier adds counterplay to her early zone control and even CC when we're talking about her E plants. Right now it's simply not feasible to try to fight back against them in lane.
zyra=/= kassadin,does she look like she has a non skillshot silence and a spammable escape?
first of all a support needs a reliable skill,sona has her q w and r,nami has her w and e,lulu has her w e and r,etc,etc. adcs generally have positioning tools,if you make it easy to avoid plant damage,you will shove her out of bot lane(and probably everywhere else).
zyra has a **** ton of counterplay already,this is why she is fun to play as and against.
and most important,zyra's strength is NOT laning,her laning is(once again) on the weak side,i don't get the lunacy of GD thinking that if a champion is strong it must mean he can kill you easily in lane,whilst being impossible to kill. zyra has a rather weak laning,and very strong late.(i also consider her balanced overall,so i dont understand what we are trying to nerf cause i don't see anything op about her)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacor View Post
Although this is kind of irrelevant, I think you and I both know I'm talking about the visible health ticks her plants have.
well it was just to point out that ezreal can q+aa and kill the plant.(though that is rather ezreal specific)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacor View Post
I never suggested nerfing her actual damage numbers. What I suggested adds the potential for countering a bit of her zone control.
her plants build up at about 16 sec cd,and if both are down she has nothing,how about that for countering her lane control?(also she is probably the easiest support to burst down(and even catch,due to her low ms),so that's always an option)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacor View Post
Effective DPS may suffer when we're talking about a situation where you're harassing with just a plant or two, but in all out fights your plants will still serve their purpose as they will not be the focus of any attacks.
bot lane champs often deal aoe damage,and plants can easily get minions aggro,the problem isn't them getting killed by the adc(seriously 3 aa's isn't that much(especially since his support can help) outside of a fight),but they could simply disappear due to minions and aoe,which is bad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacor View Post
The delay may be 2 seconds for it to fully expand and then knockup. The damage is pretty much instant if used properly on your desired target. If you catch a carry in it throughout most stages of the game, they won't even survive to see the knockup.
you are talking about mid zyra,for support zyra they always will get knocked up before dying,but even for mid zyra in laning phase you will need to knock up to kill(unless they were caught low),whilst out of it you don't want to give tanks too much time to jump on you.


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Alacor

Senior Member

10-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderswine View Post
you are talking about mid zyra,for support zyra they always will get knocked up before dying,but even for mid zyra in laning phase you will need to knock up to kill(unless they were caught low),whilst out of it you don't want to give tanks too much time to jump on you.
I said that because you said it hurts mid Zyra badly, when it's not that bad.


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Cancer Fizz

Senior Member

10-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacor View Post
I said that because you said it hurts mid Zyra badly, when it's not that bad.
well i disagree,the knockup helps a lot in 100-0 bursting mid laners,so i still think it will hurt her a lot.


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Anduraga

Senior Member

10-09-2013

While youre at it please make assassins high risk high reward, not low risk, high reward with a dash of roflcopter wave clear and absurd mobility on a short CD. Some assaszins do this right, but Zed, Ahri and Fizz? C'mon


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SourCereal

Senior Member

10-09-2013

I have an idea, how about we just completely remove supports from the game?
-main role that causes people to troll
-majority of the people dont want to play it or claim to not know how to support
-It will help ALL laners buy their OWN wards

or better yet, scratch that. Double the amount of jungle camps. Lets change the meta by having double jungle


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Superbone1

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Senior Member

10-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade of Justic View Post
You act as though Morello has any qualms about nerfing a champion into oblivion.

Attachment 794823
What's Taric?


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TomatoTamago

Senior Member

10-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anduraga View Post
While youre at it please make assassins high risk high reward, not low risk, high reward with a dash of roflcopter wave clear and absurd mobility on a short CD. Some assaszins do this right, but Zed, Ahri and Fizz? C'mon
i think its all right for fizz because he use his escape mechanism E in order to clear fast. however for zed and ahri as an assassin its too much,they are too safe and too easy to clear wave.I think assassin should be either single target or small hitbox and high cooldown.


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TomatoTamago

Senior Member

10-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbone1 View Post
What's Taric?
you gotta love his trangle boot first,as well as his face


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Superbone1

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Senior Member

10-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Directionally, this is what I like too. I think it brings out more about what's unique about Zyra.
Heimerdinger would like a word.


I just don't think the turret thing works as a main damage source in the game given what we have for ranged champs. It's just too easy to kill them, and if it isn't they have always been nerfed significantly. The other thing about making Zyra's plants the main damage source is that she actually has no way to defend them. Heimerdinger can zone you off his turrets with rockets and grenades, but Zyra actually uses half of her non-ult damage just to put the plants down - or more than half, assuming you use Q to put down ranged plants and you were maxing Q in mid. Not much threat to keep them from killing the plants now.