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@Morello: When you consider nerfing Support Zyra. Just remember one crucial thing....

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Fraux

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Morello:
Yep! But I'd rather weaken and risk balance on a champion if it makes the strategic niche and identity more diverse and clear.

EDIT: Again surprised! You guys prefer leaving Zyra alone, we can do that. I'm surprised more people don't want the plant mage gameplay that would be much more unique.

TY based Morello.


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Dig Dux

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Morello:

EDIT: I can't imagine this is the post that's downvoted. You guys really don't want her to be about plants? I'm honestly surprised - is this a "change is bad", or "Zyra is just a mage to me"?



Heimerdinger is about his pets, his turrets, they are supposed to be his niche.

Having another champion just walk into that niche and boot him out is offensive to anyone who respects Heimerdinger.

The plants are currently too inconsistent in terms of being useful on a mage.

Zyra brings to the table a swarm of vines, trapping the opponent and doing the damage, the plants have other uses as zoning or vision tools.

Try to keep that in mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7eQKSf0LmY

^ this

not plants vs zombies


Think Venus Flytrap rather than pew pew pew turrets




Zyra is a predator, not a gardener.


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Arronax147

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Morello:
The primary thing I'd like to do to Zyra is to make her MORE about plants, and less burst mage. I don't entirely know how this will effect which lane, but I do understand the sentiment to the bottom lane vs mid lane approach. This has been why we've been conservative so far (the missile speed change was just something we should have released with).

I can put more complete thoughts on this later, but that's likely the direction we'd look at outside of numbers tweaks.

EDIT: I can't imagine this is the post that's downvoted. You guys really don't want her to be about plants? I'm honestly surprised - is this a "change is bad", or "Zyra is just a mage to me"?

Morello, I like the idea that the plants are the main focus in her kit, but that's sort of making her like a more useful heimerdinger. He's turret-focused, and he has little burst, and zyra should be able to burst AND have plants do consistent damage too.


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Tomiko

Member

10-08-2013

Sooo...What about a new zyra skin? Anyone? Eh? Eh?!


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Mjaxon

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Morello:
This is why we're systemically fixing this in preseason. It's going to be MADNESS.


You said this before Season 3, and we still got games like Royal-Fnatic game 3 where Tabe had nothing but wards and boots the entire game.


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ZerglingOne

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Lower base damages, increase scaling to be even at 200-300ish AP. Done.


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Aerothal

Recruiter

10-08-2013

Quote:
Morello:
EDIT: I can't imagine this is the post that's downvoted. You guys really don't want her to be about plants? I'm honestly surprised - is this a "change is bad", or "Zyra is just a mage to me"?

Quick question i was asking myself and am asking you now: Do you play Zyra?
She already is all about plants.
You use them to zone, to farm, to slow and to chase (q activated long-range).
Her burst is not the strongest in the game and is only effective if you hit the combo correctly which isn't too easy with the slow e speed and the 2 second ult knock-up.
I would really like to know where the zeal to changing her stems from.
Is she really in such a bad place at the moment, especially compared to other champions?
And no, change is not bad. But is it needed in this case?


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UnderworldH4des

Senior Member

10-08-2013

She is already about plants, but if you make her completely about that and change her to sustained DPS, it will not work, other champions like cass/karthus and ryze can be sustained DPS because they can constantly spam, she can't, and her plants are weak pets that can't be really used for sustained DPS..

I will be glad if you just leave her alone, she's perfectly fine as she is, just buff other supports or something so we see other supports being used I guess.

There aren't even that many people that QQ about her, and it's the same few people that do.


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Fuzen kuden

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Morello:
This is why we're systemically fixing this in preseason. It's going to be MADNESS.

madness you say? *gets popcorn and goggles and rain poncho* bring it


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Ginga

Recruiter

10-08-2013

Quote:
Morello:
A good way to tune this for sure.

There's a very key problem with lowering her base and upping her ratios though.


It could seriously hurt her early game, especially those extremely crucial pre-6 levels against champions like Fizz and Kassadin.


Not just that, depending on how much you up her ratios, it'll still be an overall nerf to Zyra's who prefer to build Liandries+Rylai's. If it isn't a nerf to them at that point, it could still make it difficult for Zyra's in situations where she needs to build something like a Chalice or Catalyst over AP early game. Overall base-lowering could hurt a Zyra's early game, and not just against assassins or anyone who can flash+burst at level 6.



Because of this, I'm more in favour of a kit change over switching numbers around.