@Morello: When you consider nerfing Support Zyra. Just remember one crucial thing....

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MQ2000

Senior Member

10-08-2013

IMO the only thing to nerf about support Zyra is her plant base damage. That harass is a bit OP for support, combined with her utility


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Gidoru

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Is this some kind of joke? Why must Riot systematically destroy all the fun and unique champions in this game? Nerfing her as a support is fine if you dont destroy her Mid lane play but why the hell is it necessary to rework her to be less bursty? What about all the players who enjoy playing her as is?

AP Mid Zyra is one of my favorite champions. Shes too strong as support? Nerf her base damages and increase her scaling, i fail to see why you have nerf or rework her play as Mid lane mage.


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Ginga

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10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderswine View Post
generally you max w last on support zyra(well mid zyra as well but that's not the point),which is at level 13,considering that supports need to ward,most games just don't get that long,seems like an awfully pointless thing to nerf.

For mid Zyra, there is definitely strengths to putting points into her W. It doesn't just provide her with that sweet sweet CDR, but also seed generation.

If you like keeping control of your lane with plants, or keeping at a safe distance so that level 6 Zed won't melt you, being able to constantly keep her plants up is a wonderful thing.



I would guess Supports max E first. And those who play her as a burst mage aim to max her Q first. But it's so generic and boring to play her as a burst mage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gidoru View Post
Is this some kind of joke? Why must Riot systematically destroy all the fun and unique champions in this game? Nerfing her as a support is fine if you dont destroy her Mid lane play but why the hell is it necessary to rework her to be less bursty? What about all the players who enjoy playing her as is?

AP Mid Zyra is one of my favorite champions. Shes too strong as support? Nerf her base damages and increase her scaling, i fail to see why you have nerf or rework her play as Mid lane mage.
Wouldn't that make her more unique? Burst comboes are far too common among mages. Making her more plant reliant on damage is a very unique thing because asides from her, Heimer's the closest thing to this kind of play style.



Also, nerfing her bases and upping her scaling is a bad idea. It royally screws over her early game, which, if she's up against the likes of Zed or Fizz, is a HUGE nerf for her. Plus, your suggestion will only preserve glass cannon burst mage Zyra. What if the player wants to build Liandries+Rylai's instead of Rabadon's+DFG? You essentially just nerfed that crucial early game she needs against the likes of Kassadin and other dangerous kill-mids, while barely making up for it for those who like to build for sustained damage.


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MQ2000

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyrexia View Post
RiotTeaTime for one:
It was a joke...


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Bullettime7

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gidoru View Post
Is this some kind of joke? Why must Riot systematically destroy all the fun and unique champions in this game? Nerfing her as a support is fine if you dont destroy her Mid lane play but why the hell is it necessary to rework her to be less bursty? What about all the players who enjoy playing her as is?

AP Mid Zyra is one of my favorite champions. Shes too strong as support? Nerf her base damages and increase her scaling, i fail to see why you have nerf or rework her play as Mid lane mage.
Because that's not the intent of the champion, from the creator himself.

Zyra is intended to be a sustained damage control mage with heavy emphasis on her plants. But on the live game in the mid lane, she feels like a burst mage with extra utility who chunks your health in a combo with plants as an afterthought.

Kit works. But the damage just isn't spread where it's supposed to be.


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UnderworldH4des

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yeah - I think they're more in control mage territory (you pick them for their utility or other functions, not raw damage).
But zyra can't be a control mage, even by switching her to sustained DPS because her plants can't survive at all in team fights, or in solo lane, or when you're seiging...You already nerfed her snare speed, what else is there?

Lissandra can be a control mage (IMO) because her snare is instand and a AoE snare around her, so if you get too close, you will get trap, but that's not the case with zyra when her plants just....wittle down...


I have a feeling you just want to olaf/leblanc zyra now...


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SPARKAMUS PRIME

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
AP carry? Who ever said Zyra is that? :P
The ****ing champion spotlight . . .


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Ginga

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10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderworldH4des View Post
But zyra can't be a control mage, even by switching her to sustained DPS because her plants can't survive at all in team fights, or in solo lane, or when you're seiging...You already nerfed her snare speed, what else is there?

Lissandra can be a control mage (IMO) because her snare is instand and a AoE snare around her, so if you get too close, you will get trap, but that's not the case with zyra when her plants just....wittle down...


I have a feeling you just want to olaf/leblanc zyra now...
But Leblanc is still viable...


Anyways, from reading his posts, it sounds like the changes he plans for Zyra and her plants are drastic. And as he claims he wants her plants to be more of a thing, I think it's safe to say they likely wouldn't be as easy to kill as they currently are.


But anyways, for me I simply max her W so even if my plants die, I just wait a while to pop another back up.


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Splendid Cake

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yeah - I think they're more in control mage territory (you pick them for their utility or other functions, not raw damage).
That is a funny joke, Morello. Orianna/Liss/Zyra put out as much damage as damage oriented mages like Brand, while maintaining Amumu levels of utility. And on top of that they get to build ridiculous items like Hourglass and Rylai's for defense and offense without having to choose between the two, and Liandry's for Penetration and %HP damage so you can't build against them.

But don't worry I am sure people will learn to pick Brand soon, as he does slightly more damage than those on the rare occasion his ult bounces 3 times.


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Jace77

Senior Member

10-08-2013

just going to go out there and say this... but **** you morello.

making her plants stronger will only make her an even better support instead of mid.
if she is too strong in the support role here is a SIMPLE solution.
base damage = nerfed
ratio damages = buffed

ffs.

support = utility champion with decent mana cost --> damage and utility ratios.

why do you think no one touches orianna as a support? cause her mana costs make it ineffective and she requires gold to do more damage and use her abilities often enough to be super useful.

so if you wanna nerf zyra's base damages fine. hell nerf her base damage on her plants and make their damages scale better. just dont flat out nerf her damage and leave everything else the same.

just.. when you come out and say " we're going to overnerf her because she supported so well and fix her later" kinda makes me want to STOP PLAYING since i have much much bigger issues with other champs but they aren't getting touched at all.