@Morello: When you consider nerfing Support Zyra. Just remember one crucial thing....

First Riot Post
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Spiritofryu

Senior Member

10-08-2013

skipped by morello


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Auren

Junior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Oh - AP Carry and mage are being used synonymously here. I see the confusion. She is a mage, I define "AP Carry" as primarily damage-focused mage.
Ahh gotcha. So it would be safe to say that a champion like Lissandra wouldn't be considered an "AP Carry" either? She does damage but not Karthus levels of damage.


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Morello

Lead Designer

10-08-2013
11 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auren View Post
Ahh gotcha. So it would be safe to say that a champion like Lissandra wouldn't be considered an "AP Carry" either? She does damage but not Karthus levels of damage.
Yeah - I think they're more in control mage territory (you pick them for their utility or other functions, not raw damage).


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hashinshin

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yeah - I think they're more in control mage territory (you pick them for their utility or other functions, not raw damage).
Lissandra does a great job of controlling my health bar to 0 during a stun unless I build full tank.


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Cancer Fizz

Senior Member

10-08-2013

can we get some clarification as to why you think the changes are needed?
do you feel she is too strong right now(and if so what do you feel is too strong? her laning phase? her lategame? both?),and simply want to nerf her in this way?
you talk about reducing range,but for her to use her abilities with max efficiency she needs about 825 range,which is medium minus,any less and she will turn into an incredibly squishy skillshot based annie,which seems pretty odd.


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Yobrevol

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Morello, i like the direction in theory but a major problem i see is that if you shift power to her plants which thematically is a really good idea they die to quickly in team fights for he to be an effective threat. so i think that in order for that to work she need plants much more frequently or let them be harder to kill.


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Ginga

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Senior Member

10-08-2013

Hey Morello, if you're here, could I ask another question?

The cooldown on her W, is it because it's too good on her as a whole or just as a support? If it's the latter, mind taking out the cooldown after you balance whatever it was that made her OP as a support?


I remember I used to be able to Q an area and throw down 2 seeds in a teamfights. But lately I've noticed that only 1 of the 2 seeds hatched when I used that combo and I either had to hatch the second with my E or wait for my Q cooldown to come back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritofryu View Post
hmm the whole point of an apc is heavy burst dmg and you are going to get rid of that, kk whats next when a tank atks you you heal for the damage he does?
What about Ryze? He deals carry-amount of sustained damage. Same goes for Swain, Cassiopeia, Viktor, etc., just not as crazy overpowering as Ryze.

They all have some burst potentials, but they are all primarily DPS mages, and they can all Carry with their damage late game. Maybe not to the extent of Ryze, but still Carry.


Morello if you read this. I like this supposedly DPS-y plant-focused direction. Yes it sucks if the enemy has lots of AoE, but...in the cases where my plants are ignored I love playing Zyra. I love how her cooldowns are just low enough so that I ALWAYS have plants shooting at my opponent even if one of them got blown up my a stray AoE or if the fight moved to somewhere else.


Also, I think the current Zyra is balanced because of how slow and squishy she is, which is counter-acted by how she can lay down plant from a distance while relying on her snare and ultimate to kite. I think that balance should be kept in mind. If you reduce her range, there should be some form of compensation for how easy she is to kill when in danger-zone. Viktor, Lux, and Gragas are already terrifying because they can poke her from afar rather easily. I just don't understand why no one ever plays Gragas at all.


PS - sorry for the wall of text. I feel Zyra is pretty balanced already. But if I do have ANY grievances at all, it's her Passive. It's not a very satisfying Passive, it doesn't fit her play style, and there's nothing thematic about it beyond the fact that she turns into a suicidal plant cannon. If you're going to change her this drastically, ya think you could give this a second look. If it remains the way it currently is, I'll still be cool with Zyra because I play to live, not tank like Karthus. But that is literally my sole sore spot with AP mid Zyra.


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Phyrexia

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Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
AP carry? Who ever said Zyra is that? :P
RiotTeaTime for one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeeksNaman View Post
Katie: For a damage dealer, like an AD or AP carry, we make them look dangerous. For a support champ, for instance, we wouldn’t have that character punching a dude in the face. We have to make Zyra menacing, while still adhering to the established personality. We make the damage dealers look like they can do damage.


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yeah - I think they're more in control mage territory (you pick them for their utility or other functions, not raw damage).
How's that different than someone like Soraka or some of the other supports?


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Cancer Fizz

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
Hey Morello, if you're here, could I ask another question?

The cooldown on her W, is it because it's too good on her as a whole or just as a support? If it's the latter, mind taking out the cooldown after you balance whatever it was that made her OP as a support?
generally you max w last on support zyra(well mid zyra as well but that's not the point),which is at level 13,considering that supports need to ward,most games just don't get that long,seems like an awfully pointless thing to nerf.