@Morello: When you consider nerfing Support Zyra. Just remember one crucial thing....

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Dylie

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Doesn't matter at all, she would still be picked for support if the rest remains mediocre.
Buffing plants damage will only get her to be picked more (yay, more free damage), unless Riot guts her mana costs and AA range.


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FenixRizing

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Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylie View Post
Doesn't matter at all, she would still be picked for support if the rest remains mediocre.
Buffing plants damage will only get her to be picked more (yay, more free damage), unless Riot guts her mana costs and AA range.
Well, the main problem I see with this champ is when Zyra supports with ap masteries she outputs more dmg than mid/adc sometimes and always more dmg than the jungler. Not sure what is the best way to fix this, other than what others have suggested by lowering base dmg and increasing ratios.

Oh and something to think about, when was the last time anyone has seen Zyra played mid? Her mobility is pretty low compared to other preferred mid lanes like Ahri, so rarely will anyone see Zyra mid.


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No Pawns Dawns

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Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrySnow View Post
Well, the main problem I see with this champ is when Zyra supports with ap masteries she outputs more dmg than mid/adc sometimes and always more dmg than the jungler. Not sure what is the best way to fix this, other than what others have suggested by lowering base dmg and increasing ratios.

Oh and something to think about, when was the last time anyone has seen Zyra played mid? Her mobility is pretty low compared to other preferred mid lanes like Ahri, so rarely will anyone see Zyra mid.
I play her mid That's who I spammed the past two weeks to get gold. She's really quite fun mid, even against the assassins. Plenty of room for both parties to out play one another. What she lacks in roaming she makes up in the ability to push a lane and control it with well-placed seeds.


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Ishinokao

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrySnow View Post
Well, the main problem I see with this champ is when Zyra supports with ap masteries she outputs more dmg than mid/adc sometimes and always more dmg than the jungler. Not sure what is the best way to fix this, other than what others have suggested by lowering base dmg and increasing ratios.

Oh and something to think about, when was the last time anyone has seen Zyra played mid? Her mobility is pretty low compared to other preferred mid lanes like Ahri, so rarely will anyone see Zyra mid.

I've never bothered playing her as a support. It's depressing that she gets balanced around bot lane use when she is supposed to be mid.


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No Pawns Dawns

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Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishinokao View Post
I've never bothered playing her as a support. It's depressing that she gets balanced around bot lane use when she is supposed to be mid.
I can't agree more. I find it extremely disheartening to know that this is how the balancing works.

"Well, support Zyra brings too much damage without buying AP, so instead of changing base damages and ratios, we're going to completely rework her so she has to try to stay alive in the teamfights during this assassin meta in order to do any inkling of damage." 10/10 seems legit


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Piratoz

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Please don't gut mid zyra. Its a huge slap in the face for players who have played her in that position exclusively since release. Making her more of a dps mage sounds fine on paper, except her plants are made of tissue paper and tend to die extremely fast to aoe moves and poison in teamfights in addition to the fact that teamfights often move out of range of her plants. Please keep zyra a burst mage and don't make her another hiemer.


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HoChiMo

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
The primary thing I'd like to do to Zyra is to make her MORE about plants, and less burst mage. I don't entirely know how this will effect which lane, but I do understand the sentiment to the bottom lane vs mid lane approach. This has been why we've been conservative so far (the missile speed change was just something we should have released with).

I can put more complete thoughts on this later, but that's likely the direction we'd look at outside of numbers tweaks.
Her plants suck.

Making her more about her plants, is in essence making her more about sucking harder.



But what is to be expected when you nerf champs down into the ground like Heimer, and Taric, and Irelia and so on...

Riot mentality:

Make champs > nerf champs for balance > leave nerfed champs to rot > make new stronker champs > wait til labeled as OP against old nerfed champs > nerf new champs into the ground as well... (Repeat Process)


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Haha. Well technically, I'm "part" of every team, but none of them. I'm much more high-level than tactical on most things (IE: I'm interested in the direction and goals more than the particular execution).
So basically you're the boss and not really doing much low-level work?



BTW, if you want to make Zyra more plant based, why not do some of the following:
1. Lengthen the hp/life of her plants
2. Make the plants a little more viable when out
3. Allow her to have more plants out if they remain weak (speed up store speed)
4. Make her resourceless (IE her only resource is her seeds).
5. Give her ult its own plant.


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GnomeDigest

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Senior Member

10-08-2013

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Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
PS - one more thing to consider. Maybe if you hadn't nerfed all the traditional supports multiple times in a row, maybe support players wouldn't have started supporting with Fiddles, Annie, and Zyra instead.
The sad truth they never acknowledge. Just goes to show how poorly the season 3 changes were that were designed to assist traditional supports. I wonder what the season 4 fail changes will look like.


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Piratoz

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
The primary thing I'd like to do to Zyra is to make her MORE about plants, and less burst mage. I don't entirely know how this will effect which lane, but I do understand the sentiment to the bottom lane vs mid lane approach. This has been why we've been conservative so far (the missile speed change was just something we should have released with).

I can put more complete thoughts on this later, but that's likely the direction we'd look at outside of numbers tweaks.
Making her more reliant on plants would further emphasize her as a support. Lowering her burst is just a nerf to mid zyra and gives support zyra even more free damage from plants in lane.