Soraka's Passive

First Riot Post
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OldDirtay

Member

10-04-2013

my question is why the fuk is riot focusing on soraka when MM is so trash


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

10-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryad Soraka View Post
soraka going bot

oh hey yay free mr so useful against attack damage
Free MR is useful against a support's poke. At least in the first few levels.


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Mysnomer

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Senior Member

10-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Her passive definitely offers power, particularly early on in lane and once team fights start, no argument there. It doesn't create much gameplay though. You don't stand near allies you wouldn't otherwise stand near because of it, the decisions associated with the rest of her kit instead overwhelm that as a consideration. There's also not much you can do to be a more skilled user of that aura, it's just there, and the actions that maximize it (be with your team, don't die, be in a fight but no need to be right in the center given its large range) are the actions you'll be taking anyway.

Compare that with say Nami's passive by contrast. Sure, often the extra movement speed's just be an incidental benefit, there are regularly moments though where you'll get an opportunity to use spells in a way or at a time you otherwise wouldn't if you want to access the power that passive offers you (E an ally to help them get away, even if they can't spare the time to auto attack, look to angle an ult through your team as well as the enemy's etc).
Yes, let's remove literal passives and overburden heroes with "active," "decision making" abilities. Let's push more and more creative material into each one until repeated or rehashed abilities become more and more apparent. Let's gum up hero design to the point where everybody is like Sona, with an overly complex passive and a bunch of **** to manage. Let's push cool passives on some characters that really synergize with their abilities while shafting characters like Syndra & Lissandra with completely wasted space. :\ If you want management and adaptive decision play, where's my Invoker?

btw, why is "c r a p" censored?


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

10-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Can't see any reason to significantly alter Wish, it's a great spell and a really healthy heal (generates clutch saves, has skillful uses, has multiple use cases, comes with a significant cost).

As far as Infuse goes mana restore to ally has been a bit problematic, particularly given there's no cost apart from the CD to Soraka so much of the time it's simply 'Push Infuse on ally without max mana or you're doing it wrong'. A healthier approach there would be something along the lines of giving Infuse a mana cost, so it's not an automatic choice to give mana to an ally, but then also reduces Soraka's other mana costs to compensate. Might result in too much transfer of agency from support to team mate though ('Spend your mana to heal someone else while they actually engage with the enemy, then give away the remainder as well') so some potential issues there too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortferngatr View Post
While it might increase her sustain somewhat, I had an idea for this [Soraka passive] that might work in the context of a generalized rework.

What if Soraka, on attack, restored a small amount of health and mana to herself and nearby allies? It seems like that might be a more interesting way to give Soraka a mana heal and a passive than on her current kit, and it gives Soraka the possibility of playing an attack speed build to support her allies in a distinct and arguably healthy way.

...Incidentally, why aren't there many good on-hit effects for supports right now? Just wondering, as there might be some interesting things you could do with items affecting supports' basic attacks.
Just my thoughts--I like the strategic value of a mana heal and totally understand that Infuse kind of sucks in terms of gameplay.


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Someone From EUW

Senior Member

10-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Can't see any reason to significantly alter Wish, it's a great spell and a really healthy heal (generates clutch saves, has skillful uses, has multiple use cases, comes with a significant cost).

As far as Infuse goes mana restore to ally has been a bit problematic, particularly given there's no cost apart from the CD to Soraka so much of the time it's simply 'Push Infuse on ally without max mana or you're doing it wrong'. A healthier approach there would be something along the lines of giving Infuse a mana cost, so it's not an automatic choice to give mana to an ally, but then also reduces Soraka's other mana costs to compensate. Might result in too much transfer of agency from support to team mate though ('Spend your mana to heal someone else while they actually engage with the enemy, then give away the remainder as well') so some potential issues there too.
I think that Infuse should have a (small) mana cost, but it should recharge mana based on a flat amount + X% of the target's missing mana. This will make it more of a "keeping from oom" spell rather than a "keeping at full mana spell" while also making it useful for champions with a huge mana pool. 200 Extra mana on ryze doesn't move his mana bar much, while 200 extra mana on vayne does a lot!


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Magician Hisoka

Junior Member

10-05-2013

Unsure if you're taking suggestions for new passives yet, but I thought of one so I thought I'd share: possibly buff soraka's current passive slightly, but only make it active for a second or two after she uses an ability and/or an auto-attack. That would allow her passive to still exist and be a useful aura in the right situations, but require some skill to activate and change her playstyle a little against teams that are less AP heavy. Or perhaps make it stackable with each spellcast, so burst healing could buff the aura up to a lot higher than it can reach now, but if she doesn't cast anything it would give nothing.


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Feynt

Senior Member

10-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Yeah, been idling thinking about something similar as a way to reward active, skilled play and avoid passive, unhealthy sustain, agree there's a lot of potential there. Whether Soraka's the appropriate choice for that mechanic not yet sure (been thinking about supports in general a bit while we look at Season 4 associated changes). Something I'd be inclined to explore if taking a look at Soraka changes at some point though, and not necessarily just on the W.
This is bull. Karma already did this and it was removed in her rework because it was unhealthy sustain. If Soraka gets her flat heal switched to missing health based healing, I will lobby so f'ing hard for the old Karma back...


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UrielMalakim

Junior Member

10-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kandyvag View Post
I actually like her passive though. It allows her to be a nightmare solo laner against AP Assassins. Start game, grab a null magic mantle, and just stroll in to lane with over 60 MR as you point and laugh at Ahri/Kassadin's pitiful damage against you.

With the removal of Runic Bulwark and the whole DFG/Voidstaff thing we've got going on in every game, having someone with an AoE MR buff isn't such a bad thing. It also compliments the MR shred on her Q (which you should never touch). She'll take yours away and give it to her friends.

Actually, that's not a bad idea. Instead of just shredding MR from targets, Soraka steals it with her Q and gives some of it to herself and nearby allies.
I like this idea but I also think you shouldnt touch her passive or there will be no mr left in the game she gives a lot to a team even if they dont realize it. Yea it might not take any skill to use an AoE but with the removal of bulwark force of nature and the rework on what give you mr and what doesnt it doesnt leave a lot of options for some champions especially if an ap gets fed they just build void liandrys and rip through any mr that you build without a second thought that little extra boost from soraka helps not only the adc and other champions but the tanks so they can last long enough to get into the middle of the fight and focus them down with cc allowing the team to have a chance.


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Vinta Calvert

Senior Member

10-07-2013

You know what, Meddler. It makes me very excited that you're representing the answers toward this (potential) passive rework. You made my favorite character of any video game, and I look forward to what you have in store for my second favorite support (if at all).


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aCuria

Junior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicTheHedgedawg View Post
Savior - Soraka's heals are 1% more effective for every 3% health missing on her target. this is BALANCED by an across the board nerf to her healing abilities by about 20%. This means that Soraka is less effective at keeping her lane-mate topped off in lane, but once her teammate is down to 1/4 health, her heals are even stronger. Obviously exact number tuning could be changed here, but the idea is that Soraka's clutch heals feel even more amazing, but she doesn't feel as annoying to fight in lane, because if she's using her heal every time it's up she's doing a much less effective job of taking away your harass. Also, since the spell is now gated by opportunity AND cooldown, Astral Blessing can PROBABLY get a mana cost decrease.

I think you put up lots of good ideas in your post, but I have an issue with this one for these reasons:

1) Soraka's heal is best used when the heal will exactly top off an allied champion to full HP. Doing so makes the best use Astral Blessing's bonus Armor. A passive that scales healing with missing health does not have synergy with this heal timing.

2) I am against "reducing Soraka's healing abilities by 20%" because for a dedicated healer, she is pretty poor at keeping people topped off. Astral Blessing's heal/s is weaker than nidalee and nami, and sona loses out by 5hp/20s but heals two targets!
- Soraka 350hp/20s -> 350hp/20s/200mana/.4ap
- Sona 345x2/20s -> 120/7/65/.25ap
- Nidalee 380/20s -> 190/10/140/.7
- Nami 411/20 -> 185/9/130/0.3