Soraka's Passive

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mertatron

Senior Member

10-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Can't see any reason to significantly alter Wish, it's a great spell and a really healthy heal (generates clutch saves, has skillful uses, has multiple use cases, comes with a significant cost).

As far as Infuse goes mana restore to ally has been a bit problematic, particularly given there's no cost apart from the CD to Soraka so much of the time it's simply 'Push Infuse on ally without max mana or you're doing it wrong'. A healthier approach there would be something along the lines of giving Infuse a mana cost, so it's not an automatic choice to give mana to an ally, but then also reduces Soraka's other mana costs to compensate. Might result in too much transfer of agency from support to team mate though ('Spend your mana to heal someone else while they actually engage with the enemy, then give away the remainder as well') so some potential issues there too.
a bit like keeper of the light in DOTA. He can give back mana but it costs him. But he can also use it on himself .. and has no heal .. so it's not infinite sustain either

anyway I guess if soraka gets changed, a lot of stuff will disappear .. or get altered. well .. better that than being toxic ^^


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mertatron

Senior Member

10-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Sona's auras are somewhat better certainly, there is some play going on there, though the decisions associated with the activation effects do often drown out decision making based on the auras. Wouldn't be inclined to put something like that on Soraka though, in part simply because that's already Sona's thing - would much rather create more distinctive niches for champions where possible than homogenize them unnecessarily.

R.E. picking Soraka for her aura, particularly against certain comps, then yes, there is some decision making offered there. Again though it's pretty overwhelmed by all the other things that go into 'Should I pick Soraka' - how she'll match up against lane opponents, what sort of team comp you're running etc. It's definitely the best argument in favor of the current passive in my eyes, feel there's strong opportunity to do better though.
it's quite not enough to pick her in my opinion ..

I would rther pick her in a heavy AP comp with her MR shred than vs a heavy AP comp ... since only her aura give MR. it's nothing compared to her heal which gives 105 armor and can be used on a target who is focused by a heavy AD comp.

her aur is powerfull early and is always good during teamfights for sure, but for sure it's not her passive that makes me take her over another support.


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Best Youmu NA

Senior Member

10-04-2013

What about after casting a spell her next spell has an additional effect? Something like Q-E places something on the unit that causes them to be silenced for x seconds instead of just y seconds?


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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

10-04-2013

Well Soraka's passive and heals aren't the only thing that are incredibly passive/annoying about her, infuse is a big offender as well.

What do you think about this meddler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicTheHedgedawg View Post
So it's no secret that Soraka is probably the most passive support in the game, and is, in fact, one of the most passive champions in the game period.
She's not a terribly competitive choice at the moment, and when she IS competitive, she feels terrible to play against, because when she does her job, she basically just undoes anything you do, while not being terribly appreciated by her teammates ("heal me" "give me mana" and even when you do do those things for them, they don't appreciate just how helpful you are.)

So, let's look at Soraka and what needs to change. I'll suggest only general changes and, I guess, anyone who wants to can jump on board. I would LOVE to see someone from Riot respond to this.

Without further ado.

Base Stats. - TERRIBLE. Soraka is one of the least capable champions of defending herself, and her base stats only make that worse, even at early levels when her total lack of items isn't as crippling.

Her passive - Pretty much the definition of invisible power. It REALLY helps you and your partner shrug off things like sona Qs way more than you think it does, but since it's always on, it doesn't help in genera as much as some other passives do, and it is rarely appreciated. Her passive needs to be replaced with something that provides a more visible benefit.

Starcall - Actually not a bad ability. Especially if supports are allowed to buy more items in season 4, the MR shred can really make soraka's supplemental damage noticeable with just a Liandry's torment. That having been said, this ability is considered practically a pariah in lane since it auto-pushes, shredding MR doesn't tend to help an AD lane partner, and it means you AREN'T leveling up your heal or your infuse.

Astral Blessing - Probably the most "Soraka" thing about Soraka. Soraka is a dedicated healer, and Astral Blessing is the best basic heal in the game. It's big, it comes with LOADS of armour, and it's on a basic ability. It, unfortunately, is also the biggest reason that a good Soraka makes laning so passive.

Infuse - Soraka's single biggest problem in my opinion. It's an absolutely free harass spell, which is point-and click, provides CC AND, when no enemies are available to use it on, can be used on your teammates to give them free mana. It's also the biggest reason that Soraka can't afford to level up starcall at all since Infuse provides more utility, AND damage in most scenarios. Also, restoring mana is a cool function for a spell, and makes Soraka Soraka, but when you have 2 dedicated healing spells already, a mana restore spell on the same champion means that you are pretty much giving up ALL your real-estate for "action" plays or any sort of offensive utility.

Wish - Soraka's most balanced AND iconic ability. Probably best not to touch it too much.



So, first thing's first, what needs to stay the same about Soraka in order for her to maintain her identity.
1 - Her ultimate is not problematic at all, and is completely iconic to her gameplay: it needs to stay.
2 - Being the quintessential healer, Soraka needs a heal on a base ability as well so that she actually functions as a healer in lane, and not just in team fights.
3 Soraka is currently the ONLY choice to help sustain mana in lane, so that probably needs to stay on her somehow.

What does that mean that we can change?
1 - Her passive can be completely revamped.
2 - Starcall can be given SOME incentive not to totally ignore
3 - Infuse can get reworked as long as soraka (a) can still restore mana to teammates and (b) has a form of CC and some harass outside of starcall.


So, sticking within a power budget, how do we make this work?
well that's up to Riot, but here's some humble suggestions from me:
1 - Soraka loses the consecration passive and gains a NEW passive:
Savior - Soraka's heals are 1% more effective for every 3% health missing on her target. this is BALANCED by an across the board nerf to her healing abilities by about 20%. This means that Soraka is less effective at keeping her lane-mate topped off in lane, but once her teammate is down to 1/4 health, her heals are even stronger. Obviously exact number tuning could be changed here, but the idea is that Soraka's clutch heals feel even more amazing, but she doesn't feel as annoying to fight in lane, because if she's using her heal every time it's up she's doing a much less effective job of taking away your harass. Also, since the spell is now gated by opportunity AND cooldown, Astral Blessing can PROBABLY get a mana cost decrease.

2 - Soraka gains some better base stats. Since she doesn't get loads of free MR from consecrate, she's allowed to be a bit beefier on her own.

3 - Starcall gains a mana-manipulator-like passive which grows stronger the higher the level of the ability. Why? Because restoring mana in bursts really never feels amazingly clutch anyway, so giving her mana utility to starcall means that there is actually a reason to level it up in lane, it's still helping you even when you can't use it for fear of pushing minions AND Soraka can have a slightly higher power budget simply because her usefulness is spread over ALL her abilities now, and starcall isn't just a dump.

4 - Infuse get 86d and replaced with a new ability. What ability? Now that would be where the developers can get creative. OBVIOUSLY silence has become associated with Soraka, but the point-and-click manaless harass can be gone now and replaced with something a bit less infuriating that may ALSO be able to provide some sort of harder CC, or some sort of mobility, or some sort of AoE cc, like a splash slow around the target. Who knows. All I know is that I'd like to see a change.


What do you guys think. and, Riot especially, will we see any changes?


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

10-04-2013

I was giving Consecration a little more thought. What if it did the following one or two things:

1. Scales off of health or health regen. Say for every 100 health Soraka has, the passive aura gets stronger. Or every point of health regen would give one point of Consecration. That would at least add some gameplay itemization decisions to it.
2. Let it boost all of your skills in some way depending on the skill.
-Starcall: its MR +/- aura would be one point for every point of consecration.
-Blessing: it gives 1 armor per level of blessing per point of consecration.
-Infuse: you'd reduce the base ally mana and increase it based on the points in the passive. For enemy cast you get one or two extra points of damage for some extra poke.
-Wish: Every point would add one to the heal per level of wish.


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Aeolian Melodies

Senior Member

10-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linna Excel View Post
More healers isn't happening. Maybe we'll see an occasional support with a heal, but Riot considers them toxic.

I do agree that the main benefit of infuse is the offensive nature and that should be the focus. Maybe make it an energy regen over time so you are more inclined to use it when the enemy is away and it is less valuable when you are trading. One thing I floated around before was to lower the damage and energy gain base value, but make the skill work like Nasus's Q. More kills means more energy and damage.
I also thought, after all the troubles Riot went through with sustain, that they would never release another healing support. And then we got Lulu and I thought "see, she has a shield, not a heal".

But then we got Nami.

I never, ever thought Riot would do it - release another support with a heal - but they did. And is Nami toxic? No. Absolutely not. Riot managed to release a support with a heal that is better used in a fight rather than for passive sustain. They gave her other strengths so that she isn't just a healer.

I have complete faith that Riot can release other healing supports in the future and make them healthy for the game.


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CDiggs

Junior Member

10-04-2013

What if you make Soraka's passive like Nami's? I see Nami's like and improved Janna's; instead of just always having a speed boost, she has to actively put it on people, but still by doing things she'd be doing anyway. What if Soraka only gave MR to allies she cast spells on? Then you may be able to up the amount of MR to a more noticeable amount.

Plus it gives Soraka some decision making potential; do I wait to heal a low health ally or do I give some MR to help the fighter rush the back line? Give mana/MR to sustain/protect someone or silence an enemy? The only downside I see is that Wish may have to have it's power scaled back in someway if it both heals and gives MR.


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HigeR

Senior Member

10-04-2013

Hi meddler!

I was wondering... maybe Soraka doesn't seem to have decision making moments with her passive mostly because of it's huge range... maybe if it were like Sona's it could be more proactive... not to mention we would need some sort of visual indicator...

Also, about infuse... Infuse is... OP xD, but I think this is the most fun spell to use, it's so versatile and as a point of comparison, Soraka doesn't has many actions to take like Nami or Sona for example, who has some sort of active-passive play... I mean, they can sit in the bush, but you'll always be trying to hit your Q or buffing your ally speed, Soraka... well, she pokes with infuse, heals you or her and that's pretty much it =/

The mana case is odd, I agree, I would halve its mana restore, but in return it could be nice if it had a small haste too (most support have a haste nowadays, Soraka doesn't)


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

10-04-2013

Meddler, since we are on the topic of passive auras, what about Heimerdinger? He's got a passive aura which seems like it's more Soraka than Soraka's aura. How does that fit into things?

Now that I've seen his aura, I kind of want Soraka to have it. Maybe she could grant 25% of her passive health and mana regen as an aura to allies and lose the mana heal on the infuse. Just a thought.


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Suasive

Junior Member

10-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Hey Suasive, Riot Meddler is here NOW'S your chance! Use that document that's been sitting as notepad file for all these months!
Champion Rework: Soraka the Starchild.(By Suasive, Riot is encouraged to use it for inspiration but even more encouraged to outright steal this) (Who the heck is Suasive? Some dude that mains support, I spoke in "we" POV to get into character lol)

Passive—Divine Touch: Soraka’s basic attacks on enemy champions reveal the target for 2.5 seconds.

* Change from old) Soraka’s passive was useful, but we want support passives nowadays to feel a lot more active (See: Thresh, Nami). The current passive gives power that is difficult to appreciate or play with/around.

*(Change to new) Players love using Soraka’s basic attack. By adding a utility effect onto it, players can be rewarded for doing so, and even save wards in combat situations. An effect like this is actually deceptively powerful. Players that appreciated Soraka ability to help deal with area of effect damage to her teammates should continue reading-- it's not gone!

Q-- Starcall: Soraka deals magic damage to all enemies in a (x) radius around her. All targets affected have their armor reduced by 5/6/7/8/9 for 8 seconds.(2s all ranks,20/25/30/35/40 mana)

* (Change from old) This ability used to reduce magic resist. This tends to go against the ability’s intended use, as it becomes better for a solo AP Soraka to push waves and do damage herself. Since magic damage usually comes in bursts, the effect of this ability wasn’t too high when your teammates abilities were all on cooldown.

* (Change to new) By reducing armor instead, this ability synergizes much better with the AD carries that Soraka supports, allowing her to use this in lane offensively. Late game, Soraka players will be able to assist their carry with beefier targets. Since sustained damage usually comes from attack damage sources as well, this allows for her teammates to keep up with her debuff as she applies it. To compensate for the new early game use, this reduction value has been slightly reduced. (Champions also start with more magic resist than armor.)

W—Astral Blessing:

* (This ability is unchanged)

E—Infuse:
* (This ability is unchanged)

R—Wish: Soraka calls upon an incredible celestial energy. All allied champions within a medium radius of Soraka have all crowd control effects removed (summoner cleanse), and gain spell immunity for 1.75/2/2.25 seconds. (160s/140s/120s) [Comparison-- Sona 140s/120s/100s)

* [Details]: This ability only has a medium sized radius. In some fights, Soraka will need to take a more offensive stance to give the effect of this ability to her entire team. The initial cleanse effect of this ability does not remove suppression status from allies.

(Change from old) Soraka’s ultimate has always been in an awkward position. As a global, some of the heal always felt wasted on teammates who didn’t need it, and the Soraka player never feels confident about how much their ultimate helps. In the teamfight phase, Soraka’s double heal leads to overly passive play patterns. In addition, since the ability heals,some of the power on this abillty is locked up as the part where after a fight your teammates still have bonus health they didn't have before, but this doesn't feel "clutch" as all. However, this ability is great as a buffer against enemy AoE, which is what we want to preserve in this new iteration of the ability.

(Change to new) Spell immunity is a relatively unexplored area in League of Legends (for safe reasons). With the rise of powerful hard engage such as Ashe/Zyra and Zac/Kennen, teams can select Soraka to secure some extra breathing room (niche: fight tempo)against threatening "press R" teams. As opposed to her old ultimate, this ability has both offensive and defensive utility, and allows the Soraka player to feel a lot more active in assisting her team. The initial cleanse effect is definitely a quality of life factor, but Soraka players will still be enticed to activate the ability preemptively to prevent incoming damage. The cooldown of this ability is high at early ranks to still allow for the opponent to stay aggressive in lane and capitalize on her periods of vulnerability.


--Suasive (I'll probably post this to reddit eventually... or someone else can do it for me that'd be nice too haha)Also silly me for posting this the same day as world finals xD