Soraka's Passive

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Ohwhynot

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Senior Member

10-03-2013

So here's the thing..I don't really see her passive as a problem. She hardly has to position herself in a way where she can reliably get Q stacks on people and to silence a priority target, while still being able to heal someone in need. That's a lot of positioning, and screwing up and not being able to silence the Leblanc to interrupt her combo is a pretty big deal.

There are things that can be done to make it a more integral part of her kit, but that could throw things off.

The thing is, when she was made she really had to have a lot of base stats(like her passive) to be useful, otherwise two bruisers would just jump on her and she'd pretty much instantly die. She came from a more barbaric and uncivilized time if you will. She does need some changes though, because right now she doesn't fit well since along with only having a silence for CC, she doesn't really feel responsive. A lot of her abilities feel about as bad as the old auto animation.

I think before fixing that though, a change like letting her use her heal as a slow/armor debuff and call it astral blessing/curse could be a good call(she already debuffs with Q, so it seems thematic to an extent). It would be a bit too much like lulu, but nami has a similar mechanic as well, so I don't see why they all shouldn't just hop on the bandwagon. Anyway, raka did it first with infuse, so she's just taking the mechanic back. So with that it would add even more play to when soraka uses the ability...sure, she can use it for sustain, but then how would she peel? Then from there other changes could be made to balance it out.

As someone that has played Soraka a whole bunch, even all the way back to when she had a HoT, I've already seen her receive massive changes and minore reworks, from adding new effects to her abilities to having CD's *doubled* and ratios and bases nerfed over and over. There really needs to be something done so that everytime players find a way to use her effectively she doesn't get nuked with nerfs. I mean, I've been playing her on a novelty smurf, and I can tell you right now she's 100x more effective in a farm position in her current state, because everything that was useful on bot got nerfed over and over, and multiple hook champs were released, as well as Leona, which I believe was a good point of those champs, ie combat sustain lanes. But now with Thresh and Leona that passively get permanent stats that far outstrip anything raka gets(other than a 3 sec armor buff, but even then thresh gets more, and leona isn't far off and gets MR to go along with it), she really can't survive long at all, and definitely can peel three different CCs. She has some cheese with her high damage from Q and infinite E poke, but thresh has a really harsh damage modifier and leona is basically invulnerable during her W.

Soraka actually still does well vs Sona, Taric, Ali and Janna, but that's because all of them were also punished on the sustain nerf train as well.

Anywho, like I said, I'm finding her very effective in jungle(Heal and mana in every lane, woohoo!), mid, and top. Particularly built with Rylais and Zhonyas, maybe spirit visage, wota, or chalice depending on position and needs. She has a super fast jungle clear so doesn't need to grab jungle tems if she's played that style, though she is susceptible to counter jungling...but if she doesn't die it really doesn't affect her reverse ganks at all, and her actual ganks revolve around silence to prevent flash/escapes so that's not a big deal. Mid she's strong and nigh OP at times, and she's pretty balanced against several top laners, though top lane she does suffer from the long lane and not having an escape.

Anywho, sorry for the rant. The thing is though with her being played in mid a larger percentage of the matches she's played in, it might be a good idea to transition her in to that. The W being able to slow could make her jungle fully legit, and some animation/delay smoothing would help her 'feel' seem more fun. As far as the passive, the main topic, if you made the change to the W, you could have it so the more she uses her targeted abilities (W+E) on enemies or allies, it gives a stronger effect to something for enemies or allies. Think like the druids balance mechanic in WoW, except instead of free/instant casting it would be either a buff to the team, OR a debuff on the enemies. Like the more you heal your team and give mana, the more MR aura you get, or the more you harass and attack the enemy with W+E, She can lose the MR buff and gain a resist aura shred or something, though that is already on her Q, and armor shred is Tarics thing. Maybe a negative health regen aura(that sounds really bad and not an ability anyone wants or cares about though. But an example. At least I'm weeding out the bad ideas, huh?), so it hurts the enemies sustain? The catch to this mechanic is that it never does much if she just pokes with E and heals with W. It cancels out the balance keeping the buff/debuff minimal. But if she wants to have any actual impact on the lane, she'll have to give up healing on CD and always keeping her lane mate topped off on mana, and if she wants to sustain, she'll be hampered if she harasses. These changes if done right could also have the added benefit of increasing her non duo lane support potential. It wouldn't overly buff her mid lane strength, because that revolves around her silence anyway. A little more damage from and offensive W really wouldn't put her over the top since she effectively doesn't have an ulti...so she'd just be a lane bully like karma, but with arguably more support potential later. She could also do the jungle thing, like some karma players are doing(and raka players as well).

I hope these ideas come to some use. Thanks!


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Vortex IV

Senior Member

10-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
If we do
No more "if we do", get it done.


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MorgManBasher

Senior Member

10-03-2013

Her q should just have a slow attached to it, honestly. I love rylai's on soraka but as a support it's not exactly a cheap item to buy.


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Sydelle

Senior Member

10-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
If we do end up making changes to Soraka at some point her passive would definitely be a prime spot to do some work, agree there's plenty of room there to make something more engaging. The current one's certainly not useless, there's only a tiny amount of gameplay associated with it though, and even then the power it offers is pretty hardly to directly appreciate. Would be inclined to look at passives that support her healer with some combat effects playstyle in a way that didn't buff her passive sustain (which has been the big problem we've had in the past with her).

how can something be more engaging than a stacking debuff? do you remember why darius puts bleeds on someone? soraka is fine as is. if anythin, add slow to Q. but dont touch her pls. she's really good.


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Dryad Soraka

Senior Member

10-03-2013

She definitely needs a better passive, her current is complete sh!t

but I also agree with Sydelle, add a slow to Q pls


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OMG halp meh plz

Senior Member

10-03-2013

It's really hard to plan out what her passive should be without knowing what exactly Riot plans in the possible rework.


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Solari Eclipse

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Senior Member

10-03-2013

I feel like Soraka's role (outside of ARAM, cause active AP Soraka sustaining everyone and hurting with starcall is pretty fun IMO) is too passive. The really good supports right now, are the ones who not only are active in laning and teamfights, but also wth the abililty to make plays and in their own right carry (Sona, Leona, Nami, Janna to a little lesser extent). So I think a good fix, short of a kit rework, might be to give her an impactful passive that encourages more active play, and makes her want to try to go more aggressive, or at least give her a reason to consider it and make decisions other than "Champ X needs mana". As she is "The Starchild," make her live up to her name. Something along the lines of after she Starcalls 20/15/12 targets, her next auto gains a 0.5 or 0.75 second stun. Early game she wouldn't be getting stuns frequently enough that she might be frustrating to lane against, but those precious stuns create opportunity for play for her and her lane partner. In teamfights, she should be getting a stun every 4-5 cooldowns of starcall in mid game, and that should slide down to 3 cooldowns for late game fights. Another option might be after she hits a similar number of targets with Starcall, she gets an empower to her next Astral Blessing or Infuse, whichever she casts next. Perhaps a 50% heal increase and 25% armor increase on her next Astral Blessing and increased mana restore and a move speed buff on the allied Infuse and extra damage and silence duration on the enemy use of Infuse. Maybe it just turns her Infuse into a stun instead of a silence.

One other thing that might be worth considering is should Starcall lower the magic resist of it targets? This is an interesting mechanic that the ability gets stronger every cast over a short time, but it doesn't necessarily spread that power to all of her team (admittedly that a lot of champs who are AD have incidental magic damage. Ez, MF, Udyr, to name a few). In the spirit of kit cohesion, perhaps instead Starcall should grant her AP for a short duration following hitting a target. This would still cause her Q to deal increasing damage to her targets (If that particular aspect is something you want to keep), but it would also boost her astral blessing and in her Wish, the rest of her kit is affected by the use of her Starcall. Sorakas who go the AP route and build Dcap, or take the correct masteries fro increased AP, or build penetration would be rewarded by this change to herkit as well, even if its not as much help as an additional chunk of MR that's just not there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydelle View Post
how can something be more engaging than a stacking debuff? do you remember why darius puts bleeds on someone? soraka is fine as is. if anythin, add slow to Q. but dont touch her pls. she's really good.
For the record, Soraka's passive doesn't stack MR reduction, that is a debuff applied from her Starcall. It grants MR to her alleis in an AoE, all the time. Constant effect. You don't notice it and it has no gameplay cause its always on. If it were to go away and come in at times you control in a stronger effect, it would have gameplay opportunities and be very visible. Its just like Janna's passive and why it isn't fine.


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

10-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Her passive definitely offers power, particularly early on in lane and once team fights start, no argument there. It doesn't create much gameplay though. You don't stand near allies you wouldn't otherwise stand near because of it, the decisions associated with the rest of her kit instead overwhelm that as a consideration. There's also not much you can do to be a more skilled user of that aura, it's just there, and the actions that maximize it (be with your team, don't die, be in a fight but no need to be right in the center given its large range) are the actions you'll be taking anyway.

Compare that with say Nami's passive by contrast. Sure, often the extra movement speed's just be an incidental benefit, there are regularly moments though where you'll get an opportunity to use spells in a way or at a time you otherwise wouldn't if you want to access the power that passive offers you (E an ally to help them get away, even if they can't spare the time to auto attack, look to angle an ult through your team as well as the enemy's etc).
But Aura items are in the game. Are you saying that WotA, frozen heart, abyssal scepter, and Locket should lose their AoE effects? I don't think you are.


I could see Soraka working like Sona in that her aura changes based on skill use (although if it stays a passive, it needs to be stronger than Sona's because Sona's is an extra effect). But as someone who likes Soraka having an aura I think it'd be a little much to remove it completely.




PS. I hate Nami's passive. It feels useless and only 2 of her skills work on allies. However the buff is short and small so the window for it to have any effect is a little small.


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

10-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solari Eclipse View Post
I feel like Soraka's role (outside of ARAM, cause active AP Soraka sustaining everyone and hurting with starcall is pretty fun IMO) is too passive.
Soraka can be an active aggressive poke/bully support. However part of the reason a lot of people play her passively is that they can't afford items to make her good. Soraka is really halfway between a support and a mage as far as kit scaling goes and because supports are supposed to be 0 CS and ward only, she generally isn't going to be able to afford the things she needs to operate.

Another part of that is at 450 ip, she's a very cheap support so people will grab her in case they have to support. But they probably don't know much about the role and will be more passive than they need to be.

Finally there's the little problem with her Q: it sucks for last hitting and ADCs irrationally hate the lane being pushed. It's a good spell for a mage (I partly wish she'd be more viable as a mid if she gets reworked) who is in a solo lane, but the social requirements of the meta make it useless. That means a large part of your offense is being handcuffed by being in a dual lane solely because of the expectations of your role. Her Q can stay as it's great for a solo lane Soraka (or bottom Soraka who's being supported). However because using her Q is so item dependent: she needs either a large mana pool or a lot of mana regen to spam it on top of the AP needed to make it hurt, it falls off very hard when you don't level it until after laning and then never get any items.

So she can't get AD to harass and trade with bananas (her AA animations need to be fixed), she can't get items, and you get Caitlyns using their net to last hit begging you to keep their mana topped. Sometimes you are just forced to play passively because you are literally given no other options by your team.


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Nightseraph

Senior Member

10-03-2013

New passive: The burning banana. Soraka's attacks applies a stacking 3/5/7% and 3/5/7 armor debuff for 10 seconds. New stacks may be applied for for up to 3 seconds after initial attack.


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