Another overly complex champion that makes Invoker look easy.

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SlyGoat

Member

12-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikorasu View Post
snipped
I agree with #1, and that was my intention. The rest I'm not sure about, with the stunning dissolving illusions.

My idea with positioning of illusions would be they attempt to form a circle around your target for extra confusion, especially when swapping with images. The spell dodging thing is nice and I agree would be a good addition.



Also, @ some above poster:

When you take control of an enemy, you just create a mirage of them; the mirage cannot cast abilities.


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Nikorasu

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Double toast ><


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Nikorasu

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyGoat View Post
I agree with #1, and that was my intention. The rest I'm not sure about, with the stunning dissolving illusions.
There are two alternate solutions for that:

1: Disables simply don't work on them

2: Disables are shared on all the crowd.


First one would power up the champion greatly and would need tweaking down other values, while second one would still make sense, turning the mechanic into a much more moderate evasion method (only against damage) while still being functional.

What shouldn't ever happen is single Mirages getting stunned, just for the sake of aesthetics and coherence within the mechanic. If the "circle" you mentioned gets broken, not only the illusion breaks because they can tell the false units apart, but you get desync'd beyond any possibility of repair.


After a second read, I think you should maybe rework Manipulation (as I don't really see where it fits in) but should definitly keep the rest, specially hypnosis. Don't touch hypnosis, it rocks =)


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SlyGoat

Member

12-22-2009

My other idea in place of Manipulation was an ability that would form barriers between Revenant and all of his Mirages, similar to Veigar's event horizon, and the barriers would be impassable. But then I thought the ability would be very difficult to position correctly, and was anti-synergistic with Hypnosis, and also required you to already have a few illusions to be useful; since his ultimate requires illusions and the swap thing requires illusions as well, I threw the idea out on that basis alone, as he'd only have one spell to use with no illusions.


Disables not working on illusions at all seems a little OP to me, while disables directly killing them seems too much of a gimp factor for the hero. As for sharing disables, I'm not sure what you mean with that; when one Mirage is stunned, all of them and you are stunned for the full duration? Or, for example, if you have 1 mirage, and are hit by Cryptic Gaze, you and the mirage are both stunned for 1 second, and if you have 3 mirages you're all stunned for .5 seconds?


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Nikorasu

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyGoat View Post
My other idea in place of Manipulation was an ability that would form barriers between Revenant and all of his Mirages, similar to Veigar's event horizon, and the barriers would be impassable. But then I thought the ability would be very difficult to position correctly, and was anti-synergistic with Hypnosis, and also required you to already have a few illusions to be useful; since his ultimate requires illusions and the swap thing requires illusions as well, I threw the idea out on that basis alone, as he'd only have one spell to use with no illusions.


Disables not working on illusions at all seems a little OP to me, while disables directly killing them seems too much of a gimp factor for the hero. As for sharing disables, I'm not sure what you mean with that; when one Mirage is stunned, all of them and you are stunned for the full duration? Or, for example, if you have 1 mirage, and are hit by Cryptic Gaze, you and the mirage are both stunned for 1 second, and if you have 3 mirages you're all stunned for .5 seconds?
More like the first thing you said: Yeah, a stun on you or any Mirage affects the whole party, for the full duration. This would keep it hard for your enemies to damage you instead of hitting the illusions, while at the same time not making you an overpowered crowd-control avoider.

Think of it this way: After all, if they stun a Mirage, they already screwed up so having that spell deal no effective damage is enough of a punishment for missing the real you. If you make it so the Mirage just absorbs it like a normal summon, it's way too much, as you would have up to 1/5th chances of completely avoiding a direct attack.


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SlyGoat

Member

12-22-2009

Yeah, I see how that makes sense.

I already planned on having the illusions share all buffs and slowing effects, so I suppose it makes sense that they should also share all disables and debuffs.


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SlyGoat

Member

12-22-2009

Alright, idea for a replacement for Manipulation:

Manipulation (still lol):

Revenant manipulates an enemy champion, forcing it to mirror his movements; in addition, while a champion is being manipulated, all of your illusions will continue to attack that target regardless of your own actions.

Duration: 1/1.5/2/2.5/3
Range: 900
Mana cost: 75/90/105/120/135
Cooldown: 12



This will allow Revenant to control an enemy both more directly and more indirectly; he cannot force any orders, but the champion is actually under his control, rather than a mirage of the champion, so it can take damage during the spell. It would be broken by disables just like hypnosis.

For clarification, by mirror his movements, I mean imitate him in the reverse; if you walk south, he walks north; if you walk east, he walks west. This will allow you to catch an enemy from a fair distance away and walk towards him until you're in hypnosis range, or lead him into your team; but if you wanted to pull an enemy from a group into your own group, you'd have to walk towards him, putting you at great risk as well.

This ability would also be the only one that truly reveals you from your illusions, since they won't stop attacking the target (which I thought was important to make the ability useable without hampering your damage output).


Possible conditions for Manipulation to end, so it doesn't become too OP:

-Broken after a certain distance moved.
-Breaks after a certain amount of damage taken (which increases with AP, since I just now realized this guy has no abilities that scale with AP) by either you or the enemy, or both.
-Breaks if you stop moving (so you can't just use it as a solo kill 3 second stun)

Possible additions to Manipulation:

-Deals damage if you collide with the or pass through the target (just seems funny, and a fairly decent addition as the hero has no other nuke)
-Gives you and the target no unit collision, to avoid weird pathing issues.


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Nikorasu

Senior Member

12-22-2009

^Much, much better. I find it particularly good because it would force the enemy to stun you fast without really checking out which is the real you, which makes your illusions more effective.


For exactly that reason, the illusions should still look exactly like you. Don't make them attack. Go for the damage on collision version if you want, or make it a straight DoT while affected.

Much better version anyway =)


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SlyGoat

Member

12-23-2009

Updated with new Manipulation and some of the discussed Mirage mechanics.


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PuppetSoul

Senior Member

12-23-2009

Not complex at all.

40% passive dodge is rigged.
Having several clones that also have 40% passive dodge is also rigged.
Having +150% damage and +150 damage per attack from Malady is rigged.

Manipulation is a souped up Taunt with a longer duration and a much shorter cooldown.

Hypnosis is pretty rigged as well.

Ultimate ganker. WHY you ask?

Get ~20% cd reduction from runes and masteries. Rush a frozen heart first item. By the time you're level10, you can now grab any hero and pull them from wherever they are on the map all the way back and into your fountain, and there's nothing they can do about it (because control grabs can't be cleansed and aren't shortened by merc treads). Obviously it'd be more efficient to just pull them into a tower and dryhump them for 20 seconds, but you COULD pull them into the fountain if you felt the need.


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